Surrette (was HUP Solar One?) [RE-wrenches]

Fri Apr 9 20:21:35 PDT 2004

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Allan and others,

I've had good luck with IBE batteries, actually with all of the
industrial variety. I find that I can figure on having some kind of
problem with all makes though. I've learned to take it as par for the
course over the years that manufacturers never will pay you for the time
and money wasted "fixing" a new system component. It doesn't just apply
to batteries.

While I'm on this nasty subject, I think it's kind of my wrenchly duty
to tell you all about an Outback quad stack I've been doing - for the
past week no less.

First I have to say that John at OB has been extremely responsive and
helpful in dealing with the problems that developed. Without him on the
phone for seemingly endless periods we'd probably still be there trying
to figure what to do to make the thing work.

To make this a short story, we hooked up and programmed everything
exactly as directed by John (the manual is, IMHO, basically useless)
over the phone. This is a split-phase install so we have two pairs of
L1s and L2s, an X-240 with fan, etc. The PSDC is crammed to over-flowing
with stuff, as is the DC box. Everything worked fine when we fired those
babies up. Everything worked fine when we connected to AC in from the
big Onan (45 kW). But, when we disconnected the generator from the
inputs - POP POP ka-POW!

No two inv., that's slave 1, shot sparks and the dreaded smoke monster
out of the cooling inlet and tripped the DC breaker (175 amps) in a loud
and colorful display of high priced pyrotechnics you normally have to
pay for. Actually we did! Being only too familiar with that particular
sound, my bet is that a number of FETs blew along with who knows what
else.

John was quick to ship a new replacement though, and we returned to
install it, only to find that inv. #4 (slave 3) had committed suicide in
our absence. At least it's brain had, so John has sent us a replacement
board, which we intend to do a transplant with on Monday.

The owner is not exactly pleased with all this sturm und drang going on
in their inverter room, especially since I talked her into upgrading
from a fairly recent pair of 4048s (that I also sold her), which worked
pretty damned well.

All you guys who have been in this field as long as I have are only too
familiar with this story, or at least the script, and know that this is
just kind of the deal in our line of work. Still, you would think that
by now you would be able to pull something out of its shipping box, put
it up and away it would go doing just what it's supposed to do, without
having to make lots of trips and lose lots of $$$ in the process.

I'm not complaining about Outback here; this kind of problem is not
limited to them in any way, but wouldn't it be cool if there were
nothing to complain about? I import wind turbines and solar pumps by the
way, so I'm no stranger to having the shoe on the other foot. No matter
how well conceived and built something might be, there's always room for
improvement!

Matt T

-----Original Message-----
From: Allan Sindelar [mailto:allan at positiveenergysolar.com] 
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 4:18 PM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: Re: Surrette (was HUP Solar One?) [RE-wrenches]

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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Travis Creswell, Ozark Solar" <ozsolar at ipa.net>
Lately we've been doing more and more systems where there is a real need
for heavy duty batteries, the customers budget will allow a quality
battery and maintenance can be accomplished regularly.  I've got a few
sets of the KS series Surrettes out there and I'm not as impressed with
them as I'd like to be.  Time will tell, but for now I'd like to try
something else.

Travis,
I have become a bit disillusioned with Surrette as well. We have used
them for several years because of their public reputation gained through
advertising, and because of the relatively easy shipping logistics of
having Dankoff in the same town, with stock, piggyback orders, and a
forklift. For those very practical reasons, we'll probably keep using
them, but not as enthusiastically after our last purchase.

So I submit this post in the spirit of the Wrenches list, which is to
share our professional experiences with the products we use, good or
bad. The piece which follows is from a letter I sent to Dankoff Solar
for forwarding to Surrette. The reply to Dankoff from Surrette follows.

<Rolls-Surrette Battery Company markets themselves as "America's #1
Solar Battery Company", but honestly I am fed up with their products. In
little more than a year I have had to deal with three failures. Each has
consumed our time and cost us money, and while our warranty followup has
maintained good will with our customers, it is a costly way to achieve
it. This latest problem is the worst by far.

We ordered six PS-25-KS 4V batteries as a replacement set for a 24V
remote home system. The customer specifically asked for the best
batteries we could supply, so we recommended a single string of
KS-series Surrettes. I built a custom battery box and planned the
installation carefully, as the clients were living there and power
needed to be maintained as continuously as possible. We needed to remove
and recycle 24 leaking L16s, replace areas of acid-damaged sheetrock,
install the new enclosure, install the batteries and complete hookup,
cabling, venting, and peripheral details. I planned a two-day
installation with four of the old L16s remaining for minimal overnight
power. As these batteries weigh 315 lbs. each, I subcontracted pickup,
delivery and unloading of the new batteries to a local contractor and
his helper. He rented a portable hoist to safely get the batteries off
of his 3/4T 4X4 truck and used a hand truck to maneuver the batteries
into the battery room.

When I routinely checked voltage and polarity the first 4V battery
measured 0.005VDC. It turns out that one of the cells in this battery
had been assembled with the polarity of the cell reversed, and .005V was
the voltage difference between the two 2V cells. I cut the black
silicone and removed the top, and determined that this was indeed the
case. The contractor brought over his hoist and we lifted the two cells
out of the case. We pulled the two cells in the battery box out of their
red case, and I hooked them up with the defective cell wired in reverse
to establish proper polarity and give me the needed 24VDC.

It astounds me that Surrette failed to perform a simple voltage check on
batteries that are ready to ship, especially on their largest, heaviest
and most costly cells. As a result of talking with you, I know that
Surrette is sending a replacement battery. I now get to look forward to
a callback trip to a job in a remote site that is otherwise complete, in
order to replace this cell. I must pick up the replacement, rent a
hoist, hire a helper, disassemble the box (I made one end panel
removable), shut down the system, replace the battery, reprogram the
inverter, load the old cells, and return them to either Dankoff or the
scrapyard. That's about half a day's work, plus travel: $500 of labor,
rental, and service time. Given that this complex problem could have so
easily been avoided by one minute of in-house testing by Surrette before
the batteries were shipped, I expect to bill Surrette for my costs to
correct a problem caused by their lack of basic quality control. Please
support me in this, as they should take responsibility for their
fundamental error and cover my expenses to correct it.

Please advise me how to proceed.

Allan Sindelar
Positive Energy>

Hi ---,
Simon has made the arrangements for the replacement battery (not just
the
cell) to be sent out as soon as we were notified that there was a
problem. Under the Warranty Policy, this battery was sent out at no
charge.  The freight charges associated with shipping the replacement
were waived for this replacement.  This was done due to the
understanding that others would also incur their "cost of doing
business" concerning this replacement. There are no provisions in our
Warranty Policy to cover an installer's expenses for servicing their
customer. If you have any questions, concerns or comments, please feel
free to contact me.

Regards,
Darin Pettis
Surrette Battery Company Limited

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