Hornet wind turbine? [RE-wrenches]

[Hugh Piggott]

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At 10:09 AM -0700 19/11/03, Windy Dankoff, Dankoff Solar wrote:
>Wrenches,
>
>anybody know anything about this company or product?
>
>http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/index.html

Ths question comes up on the a-w-h list from time to time.

Here are Paul Gipe, Mike Klemen and Doug Elsam

First Paul..............
September 14, 2001

Stirring Up a Hornet's Nest: New Turbine Generates Controversy

Copyright 2001 by Paul Gipe. All rights reserved. No portion of this
article may be copied or circulated without the express permission of the
author.

"We're not a very sophisticated company," Bob Green says humbly. Others
agree. The awea-wind-home web site is buzzing with questions about the
audacious claims of Green and his company, Thermodyne Systems of Lancaster,
California.

According to Green, Thermodyne has built about 70 of the 8-foot diameter
turbines in the past eight months. Most have been shipped to Canada and
Africa, he says. All for battery-charging.

Though their web site, www.hydrogenappliances.com depicts a hinged tower,
Green now says the company no longer provides towers.

Green says he and the company's three employees have built 20 to 30
hydrogen electrolizers in addition to the multiblade wind turbines.

Despite Green's claim that the company has been experimenting with wind
"for the past ten years", the firm has yet to master the fundamentals of
wind energy.

Green is quick to say that the power promised on the metal shop's web site
is "peak" power, and he explains that after they apply the load the "rotor
starts slowing down."

As Michael Klemen, a wind experimenter in North Dakota, has noted, the low
wind performance of the turbine exceeds reality.

At 5 mph, the web site claims the Hornet will produce 640% of the power
available in the wind; at 12 mph, 117%; at 22 mph, 49%; at 28 mph, 35%. The
Hornet's performance at 22 mph and 28 mph would make it one of the most
efficient small wind turbines ever built--even exceeding the aggressive
performance advertised for the Air 403 of 31%. The Hornet's performance at
5 mph and 12 mph is clearly impossible according to our understanding of
physical laws governing the power available in the wind.

Such wild claims for the Hornet could come back to sting Thermodyne in
litigious California.

-30-

Paul Gipe is the author of Wind Power for Home & Business, Wind Energy
Comes of Age, Wind Energy Basics, and Energía Eólica Práctica.

....................

Mike Klemen did a good answer back in February
At 3:28 PM -0600 9/2/03, Michael Klemen wrote:
>
>>  I searched the archive and see that the Hornet
>>
>>(<http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/windpower.html)>http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/windpower.html)
>>  did not exactly gain glowing reviews.
>
>Interesting.  The Hornet they have now is a totally
>different machine than they were advertising the last
>time I commented on it.  That one had aluminum blades
>and if I recall correctly, looked more like a water
>pumper.
>
>>  Among other things, it seems people were irked at the
>>  advertising claims concerning power output. Michael
>>  Klemen (message 5820) pointed out that some of their
>>  power claims are in fact theoretically
>>  impossible.
>
>The data currently on their web site is pretty useless
>to comment on (doesn't even seem reasonable, either - 400W
>in a 10 mph wind- NOT).  They allow the voltage and
>current to vary.
>
>Their measurement is probably at a given wind speed with
>open circuit voltage, then an instantaneous measurement
>of current when they turn the load on.  You'd never
>experience that in real life!  You could try to ask them
>for a constant voltage power curve...from there we can
>estimate energy output.  I wonder if you'd even get a
>reply.

................

At 3:02 PM +0000 23/7/03, dougselsam wrote:
>
>Just would like to put in a good word for Ron Green of
>http://www.HydrogenAppliances.com
>I've found him to be extremely friendly and supportive of a fellow
>wind inventor.  He's even come and visited our installation at our
>test site at Brent Scheibel's Windtesting facility in Tehachapi, at
>http://www.windtesting.com
>As an inventor just getting into wind energy, he apparently has his
>share of successes and not so successful products.  He has an
>amazing amounty of energy and knowledge across many subjects, even
>if just cutting his teeth in wind - he's selling a lot of product
>while many others stand on the sidelines and wish.  I can't speak to
>the blue max, which I happen to know he is working hard to improve,
>but I will say that using his hornet blades and alternators, in
>conjunction with my new design, we get a solid 900 - 1000 watts
>average at 28 mph, not even corrected for altitude, measured at the
>battery bank after line losses.
>You can view the power curves at http://www.selsam.com
>And we're improving from there - just getting started, really.
>His Hornet blades are an exceptional bargain.  And I've found his
>Hornet alternator to be capable of 3000 watts peak power so far with
>no damage.  He's truck-tested his hornets up to 100 mph with no
>damage.
>Sincerely,
>Doug Selsam
>Selsam Innovations
>2600 Porter Ave.  Unit B
>Fullerton, CA 92833
>714-992-5594
>http://www.selsam.com
>Doug at Selsam.com


--
Hugh

in Edinburgh
http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk/
--
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