Anti-solar attitudes (was Calif. fires) [RE-wrenches]

Mon Nov 10 20:10:53 PST 2003

I thought you were! ;-)

We tried to do a wind project in the Tejon Pass back in 83(?) that LA
County killed for just this reason. I now hear that the DW&P is going to
do their OWN wind farm in this area regardless of any restrictions on
height, size or noise issues. Ain't it grand how the wheels of
government seem to get greased when it's on their own wagon?

I bet that those same builders who killed the 50% solar program would
have pushed it through in a New York minute if they had something to
profit from the process.

I also would like to report that after assembling an ETA- Tracker today
virtually ALL of the required fasteners were actually in the box!! For
those of us who've been around this business for enough years, this kind
of thing is pretty near supernatural.

My hat's off to Dankoff and all those Chinese/Germans putting this stuff
together; Hoo - Ray!

Matt T

-----Original Message-----
From: Joel Davidson [mailto:joeldavidson at earthlink.net] 
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 7:22 PM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: Re: Anti-solar attitudes (was Calif. fires) [RE-wrenches]

Hey, I'm on your side. Pro-wind. Anti-LA-Blight. A few years ago
Supervisor Antonovich (Palmdale, Lancaster, etc. good wind areas)
recommended 50% of all new homes be built with solar. I attended the
supervisors' meeting and, at Mike Bergey's encouragement, used the
opportunity to ask Antonovich to get rid of the antiquated 35 feet tower
height limit that was set in the early 1900s because 35 feet was the
height fire equipment could pump water. The height limit was changed
when New York and other big cities built tall buildings, but the tower
limit remained - unless you got a waiver and paid thousands of dollars
to the planning commission. Builders killed the 50% solar homes saying
it cost too much and would hurt their business. Right-wingers also
opposed it because they don't like the government to interfere with
their businesses (same for the American automobile manufacturers). Oh
yeah, the height limit is still the law.

Matt Tritt wrote:

> Joel,
>
> Depends on the turbine, doesn't it? 3 decibels above ambient @ 100 
> meters (downwind) hardly would be described as noisy, wot? Beauty is 
> definitely in the eye of beholder; like the comment about utility 
> poles being acceptable but not a WECS. The idea of a windturbine being

> in ones' face and ugly is pretty funny. Consider the nature of Los 
> Angeles. Oops! No offense meant, but you know what I mean. Besides, 
> you don't sell wind power to neighbors, you sell it to a buyer; just 
> like PV or a new roof.
>
> The new state guidelines do a very good job of delineating what can 
> and cannot be done to kill a wind project. Stopping it because you 
> object to the appearance of a turbine can not, in most cases, be used 
> as a valid reason. Consider the visual impact of a 10 k ground mount 
> PV installation - 1200 sq ft of panels, and that's if it's all in one 
> row! A 10 k turbine on a monopole takes up about 20 sq. feet of ground

> and 23' diameter in the air. You can see how the visual impact 
> argument can be aimed right back at you. (relative efficiencies aside)
>
> I believe that both technologies need to be accepted equally without 
> any pre-conceived negatives attached.
>
> Someday this will be a perfect world! ;-)
>
> Matt T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joel Davidson [mailto:joeldavidson at earthlink.net]
> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 6:03 PM
> To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
> Subject: Re: Anti-solar attitudes (was Calif. fires) [RE-wrenches]
>
> Windpower is harder to sell to neighbors because of the sound (noise 
> to some
> people) and sight (in your face and ugly to some people). Some people 
> with Hollywood Hills mansions get the similar complaints about their 
> noisy parties and view-blocking big house. One man's beauty is another

> man's beast.
>
> Matt Tritt wrote:
>
> > Joel and Matt,
> >
> > Isn't it amazing that there actually IS a segment of society that is

> > anti-solar, wind, etc.? I recently attended a county supervisor's 
> > meeting that featured a very vocal opposition to the installation of

> > a
>
> > Bergey Excel "10" kW in an agriculturally zoned area. The opposition

> > was plainly as NIMBY as it gets - no valid arguments against, they 
> > just plain didn't want to see a windturbine on the offending 
> > property.
> >
> > This group had approached me (as a knowledgeable wind guy) to write 
> > an
>
> > opinion expressing the view that there wasn't sufficient wind 
> > resource
>
> > in the area to warrant the installation of a turbine. They offered 
> > to pay me to do this. I actually had to make a decision to back the 
> > project, in spite of a marginal wind regime, because of the very 
> > real possibility that denying it would or could have created a 
> > negative precedent for future similar installations in the area.
> >
> > The issue for the NIMBYs wasn't the performance of the machine at 
> > all;
>
> > it was purely their perception that it would somehow detract from 
> > the "pristine rural character of the area" (which it isn't) just by 
> > being there. I have encountered similar attitudes toward PV from 
> > people who feel the same as the ones opposed to windturbines; they 
> > just don't like the looks of the technology. The combination of 
> > suspicious utility people and ignorant NIMBYs can be one hell of an 
> > obstacle for our businesses to deal with.
> >
> > None of this has anything at all to do with burned-out neighborhoods

> > but it has a lot to do with a certain element or elements that might

> > monitor this list looking for good negative ammunition for possible 
> > use against projects or equipment, and I can readily see why Matt L 
> > would warn against giving the wrong impression or one that could be 
> > misinterpreted by these people. After all, if someone with the 
> > experience and perceptiveness of Matt can read something iffy into 
> > Joel's message, just imagine what the Dark Side can do with it! On 
> > the
>
> > other hand, I think it's great to hear positive AND negative 
> > feedback on the equipment we use. That's one of the cool things 
> > about this list.It would kind of suck to have to tell only the good 
> > stories when it's the bad ones that can be the most valuable. IMHO
> >
> > The other Matt
>
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