CSA Listing Question [RE-wrenches]

Sat Aug 9 08:25:16 PDT 2003

Hi All,

Writing as a Canuck I'd like to remind everyone that a CSA label bears
the same weight and validity as a UL or ETL label.  Even inspectors
should be able to grasp the concept of a NRTL.  What, you say, is a
NRTL?  It is a Nationally Recognized Testing Lab.  

There are three major NRTL's playing in the North American market they
are in alphabetical order; CSA, ETL, and UL.  Each of these laboratories
are recognized as being able to test and verify to specific published
standards such as UL 1741 (USA) or CSA 102.7 (Canada).  

Matters become somewhat confusing because in both the US and Canada the
two major testing labs are the same folks who publish the standards.  UL
and CSA standards are developed in consultancy with safety experts and
industry and then adopted.  Once adopted any NRTL can test and validate
to the standard.  It is common for example to see UL labels with a small
'C' in the lower left area.  This symbol indicates that the product has
been tested and verified to conform to both UL and CSA standards and it
can be sold in Canada as a listed product.  Incidentally the little 'C'
costs manufacturers both money and time as there are somewhat different
standards in Canada than the US.  Conversely CSA ladled products will
include the specific UL standard listed to on the label.

I've noticed more and more CSA logos cropping up on a wide variety of
products (all the way from urinals to electronics) when I go down to the
States.  I think that the industrial world has welcomed some competition
in the world of listings and labels.  I don't suppose the 30-40%
differential in our currencies has hurt much either.  

In summation if the product has a NRTL logo (CAS, ETL, UL) and describes
what standards have been met (i.e. 1741...) the product is appropriately
listed and should not be a matter of concern for any inspector.  I
suppose if they are still confused they can take a course in
international relations.

I hope this clarifies the matter of labelling on products a bit.

Regards,

Ezra 

DragonSun Consulting
Morewater Road
Lasqueti Island, B.C. V0R 2J0

ezra at lasqueti.net
250 333 8650 voice
250 333 8670 fax 

-----Original Message-----
From: Allan Sindelar [mailto:allan at positiveenergysolar.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 7:25 PM
To: New wrenches posting
Subject: CSA Listing Question [RE-wrenches]

Wrenches,
The first Xantrex SW Plus 2524 that I have seen is listed by CSA (US &
C); it lacks a UL or ETL listing. I asked Ray Barbee of Xantrex about
this, and his response is below. In his last response he included a link
to a document that is directly relevant to this topic, so check below if
you are concerned about this. The document seems to settle the listing
issue, but I'm still cautious about less enlightened inspectors looking
for that UL mark.

I haven't encountered this situation before. Should we U.S. Wrenches
consider this a problem?

Allan at +E

Previous correspondence (marginally amusing):

Hello again, Allan.
The document is now listed under the Tech Notes section of Document
Depot on the web.  The address would be
http://www.xantrex.com/support/docserve.asp?id=669.
Once again, I hope this helps.  Thanks
Ray

Hi Allan.
I looked for it and couldn't find it either.  I've asked the webmaster
to post it, and I'll let you know as soon as it's on there.  Hopefully
this morning.Thanks Ray

Ray,
I looked for the attached tech doc on Xantrex' web site but couldn't
find it. Could you please supply its web address so that I can include
the link in my Wrenches post? Thanks. Allan

Ray,
My concern is the latter. This is a new issue for us, and the document
you attached helps a lot. I revised my Wrenches posting, and will
forward you a copy. Allan

Hi Allan,
No, I don't really see any problem with it - but thanks for asking
first. One question - is your hesitation due to a question in your mind
that the certification is valid, or from a standpoint that it may raise
questions from inspectors?

I've attached a pdf of a bulletin that Xantrex put out in April covering
the question.  Perhaps it will help. Thanks, Ray

Ray,
Do you see any problem with my posting the message below to the
RE-Wrenches list? Allan

Allan,
Yes, CSA is Canadian and Canada has their own set of standards (which
largely follow UL except in some marine applications), but they are
authorized to test to UL standards just as ETL or even the "for-profit"
side of UL.  Although we haven't encountered any issues with inspectors
yet, there is always the possibility of questions.  But even if the
question is raised, it should be fairly easily answered with a response
from CSA themselves.  I don't anticipate much of an issue, and we'll
probably use them more in the future. Ray

  Ray,
  Isn't CSA a Canadian organization, certifying to Canadian standards? I
have never used anything with a CSA label, and I don't know if I should
expect trouble with an inspector. Is their mark as acceptable as UL or
ETL?
  Thanks, Allan

    Hi Allan.
    CSA will do the regulatory testing on these units.  Some of the
optional accessories may go through UL, but most of the line will go
through CSA.
    Thanks
    Ray

      Ray,
      I am just beginning to examine the unit, as it arrived today.
First
question:
is this unit UL or ETL listed? All I see is CSA. if not, when will it
be?
      Allan

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