Gerard Roofing Systems [RE-wrenches]

Tue Dec 2 08:34:06 PST 2003

Gator,

I have installed solar on these types of metal tile roofs.  If I cant
get flashable mounts installed to the decking before the roof goes on I
won't touch it.  There is no way to tighten down mounts into rafters
later without compressing and buckling the tiles.  Walking on these tile
is difficult because you need to stay on the lower edge of each tile
where the 1"x1" under frame is located.  A piece of plywood covered with
thick carpet (keeps it from slipping) can be helpful if the slope is not
too steep.  These roofs can get very hot in the sun, buckle when walked
on and are super noisy when it hails.  They do look nice and last for
decades.  I completely avoid working on existing metal tile and
Cal-Shake roofs.  If the roof has already been applied my advice would
be to have the roofer remove the roof for access to install mounts.  I
have seen plastic pool panels laid flat on these types of roofs, make
sure your fasteners go into the 1x1's which should keep the roof from
buckling.  Just remembered, about 12 years ago I glued a solar-roll pool
heating system onto a metal tile roof with SunBond adhesive, system is
still working well.

Graham

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Lane, Energy Conservation Services
[mailto:solar8 at ehostingbiz.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 6:57 AM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: Re: Gerard Roofing Systems [RE-wrenches]

Does anyone have a solar electric system installed on a Gerard
(www.Gerardusa.com) roofing system?? I have a homeowner in the panhandle
of Florida who is ordering one from the manufacturer. I understand this
metal roofing system is popular in Southern California. The Gerard
roofing system looks like tiles or shingles etc. but is a ceramic coated
metal roof. Does anyone have a picture of one on a Gerard roof? Any
details about installation would be accepted.

Gator Tom
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Allan Sindelar" <allan at positiveenergysolar.com>
To: "New wrenches posting" <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 7:50 AM
Subject: Installing Systems Bought Elsewhere [RE-wrenches]

> Tom Lane and Fellow Wrenches,
>
> Tom, you posted the excerpt below back on 2/25/01. I saved it because 
> it
had
> good advice, and recently came across it. The last paragraph, about 
> installing equipment bought elsewhere, led me to some questions. This 
> also seems like a relevant topic for all of us, so I'm asking it here.
>
> We generally offer a year's general warranty on our design and
installation
> work. We cover labor (and travel on jobs not too far away) on 
> warranted product failures during this initial year as well. This is 
> satisfactory in general to our customers, and in most cases there are 
> no warranty trips necessary.
>
> We also have a general policy that we won't install equipment bought 
> elsewhere. Partly, this is to encourage customers to buy their 
> hardware
from
> us, as good business policy. We bend this policy on a case-by-case 
> basis, generally with a disclaimer that reads, in its most formal
contract/proposal
> wording, as: "We honor all manufacturers' warranties and will repair 
> or replace defective components according to each manufacturer's 
> stated warranty terms. Our installation work is generally guaranteed 
> for one year against failures due to our error. During this year, we 
> will also cover labor [we sometimes add (but not travel)] on warranted

> product failures. However, we will only assume product warranty 
> service liability for those products that we have both supplied and 
> installed. This applies both to manufacturers' product warranties and 
> to our standard one-year warranty on installation work performed. 
> Positive Energy is not liable for any
warranty
> coverage for equipment not provided by us, whether or not we install 
> that equipment."
>
> But we all know that the last person who works on a system gets blamed

> for anything that goes wrong.
>
> 1. How do you deal with followup and warranty support when you install

> equipment you didn't sell? 2. How do you protect yourself when 
> something breaks that you installed
but
> didn't sell? What if it damages something else that you supplied? 3. 
> What if the client claims that faulty installation caused the problem?

> 4. What happens when it's apparent that the equipment set is poorly
matched,
> or you suspect that the finished system isn't a good match for the 
> customer's application? Human nature and ego are at work here, both 
> yours and the customer's. What do you advise? Do you add missing 
> pieces? Do you just install hardware supplied, even if you know it 
> won't work well in the system? If not, and you sell part of a system 
> (the part that makes it work
> well) when and how do you warrant overall performance? (For example,
we
once
> had to analyze and rebuild a system with a DR2424, an LED voltmeter 
> and forty golf cart batteries that had crashed three months after
installation.)
>
> Looking for discussion here to help us all...
> Thanks,
> Allan at Positive Energy
> Tom Lane on How to Charge for Design and Installation
>
> I am in total disagreement that contractors and wrenches who work for 
> a living for their families should give away their time and knowledge 
> to the "uneducated public". No other profession gives away their time 
> and
knowledge
> for free. Solar hot water and solar pool heating systems are simple
systems
> with basic rules of thumb that enable you to give a consumer rough 
> cost estimates and free job surveys and quotes. Not so with solar 
> electric systems. Read Bob-O's & Richard Perez's article in Home Power

> #81 on what
to
> expect from a professional solar electric contractor.
>
> Our Fees
>
> ECS charges $500 to $2000 to custom design and specify all the 
> equipment with price breakdowns that include labor. If some pilgrim 
> wants to take
our
> list and shop the internet or call a discounter advertising in Home 
> Power that's fine. I've been paid for providing an education and a 
> shopping
list.
>
> If you don't value your time, no one else will. We typically refund 
> half
of
> our design time charge, if the customer buys the system as specified. 
> If they bring a shopping list and want a quote that's different. Some 
> of you new contractors don't know how many professional engineering 
> firms will
take
> advantage of you to quote or do their design work for them - that 
> they're getting paid for!
>
> We provide basic educational brochures and information for free to 
> people
to
> gain a basic understanding. We teach courses each semester at our 
> local community college for the beginning pilgrim. We all do 
> missionary work at trade shows, etc.
>
> When someone buys the equipment and wants us to install it for them, 
> we're glad to charge them by the hour for our labor. It's pure profit 
> when you charge by the hour for a crew. They pay for all the time it 
> takes, holding us up driving or taking a boat or plane back to the 
> mainland to get parts
or
> dealing with defective equipment. All the normal glitches a 
> professional runs into costs the client money instead of our loss of 
> profit when we run into Murphy's Law.
>
> Tom Lane
>
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>
>
>
>

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