SW4024 and Piezo Igniters [RE-wrenches]

Jeffery Wolfe, Global Resource Options jeff at globalresourceoptions.com
Sun Jan 5 17:23:54 PST 2003


I've been having a long-term problem with an Onan Emerald 6300W propane
genset.

Works great much of the time, but sometimes gets into a pulsing mode while
charging. By pulsing I mean that the current draw on the charger will vary
by 3 to 8 amps in a 2-3 second period, pulsing up and down. Sometimes this
is ok, other times it makes the lights flicker like all heck. We get voltage
readings that vary by 15 to 20 volts during the pulsations. This will go on
anywhere from 2 minutes to half an hour, and then just stop. No way to make
it happen, or to stop it.

After making way to many trips to the site and battling the local Onan
dealer, they finally replaced the voltage regulator. Didn't change a thing.
Now Onan Northeast is involved, and has a better theory, which might also
have something to do with the problems noted by others.

The voltage regulator senses the voltage from the line to the inverter.
During operation, the inverter/charger sends noise back onto the line being
sensed. The voltage regulator can pick up the harmonics, and start trying to
control to the harmonics, rather than to the true voltage signal.

If this is the problem, the solution is to install a small 1:1 transformer
in the line to the voltage regulator sensor. The transformer will drop out
the harmonics, allowing the regulator to regulate based upon a pure signal.

Could it be that the microwave/piezo igniters/other electronic thingies are
putting an excessive amount of noise back onto the line, making the voltage
regulator behave poorly enough to bump off the inverter connection?

On larger gen sets (don't know where the break point is) these transformers
come as standard, because apparently this is not an unusual problem.

We are going to install the transformer on 1/13. I'll let you know what
happens.

On a related topic, this same genny has gotten into a habit of disconnecting
during charging, turning off, and then restarting and reconnecting
automatically. It did not do this when first installed (even though it had
the above described problem) but has done it ever since the partial rebuild
caused by the mouse nest in the generator.

No error messages come on at all during this stop/start sequence. Gen starts
and synchronizes nicely. I'll track voltage better next time on site, but it
does not seem to be going off on high voltage. Any clues?

Jeff Wolfe
Global Resource Options



-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Peltz, Peltz Power [mailto:jay at asis.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 5:57 PM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: Re: SW4024 and Pizzo Ignitors [RE-wrenches]



Hi Matt,

Yes I agree, that with just the one load on, sometimes it can "fool" the
regulator on the genny, but I doubt that this is the case.  Usually if you
are using the stove, you've at least got a light on.  And in my experience,
if at least one light is one ( best if its an incandescent) then there is no
problems with a sensitive load.

Jay

peltz power


----- Original Message -----
From: "matthew tritt" <solarone at charter.net>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: SW4024 and Pizzo Ignitors [RE-wrenches]


> Hay Jay,
>
> .  I suspect that the real reason that certain  loads, like microwaves,
oven
> bars and submersible pumps don't work properly with the small, low
> torque-high RPM gensets has to do with their controls, and not the actual
> load. Perhaps, that since these small generators will easily bog down and
> develop a less than perfect wave form when attempting to start some loads,
> the controls reject the power (or, in the case of some pumps, the engine
> stalls out) Does anyone have experience with a small (under 6 kW) high
speed
> genset that will actually start and run sensitive loads? I've never seen
> this type of problem with the Listers or other industrial grade sets that
I
> use.
>
> Matt
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>
> From: "Jay Peltz, Peltz Power" <jay at asis.com>
> To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 9:11 AM
> Subject: Re: SW4024 and Pizzo Ignitors [RE-wrenches]
>
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > What I'm curious about is that "glow bars" only use a few hundred watts
> max.
> > I don't understand all this talk of overloading a 3500 watt genny?
> >
> > I think the problem is not in acutal power useage but in some other
> problem
> > such as wave form.  I've got a customer ( haven't been back out to the
> site
> > yet) who says their microwaves work fine on the inverter, but don't work
> > with the genny ( SW4024) which is a 4.5kw onan in good shape.
> >
> > Remember its not the size, its how it works!!
> >
> > jay
> > Peltz Power
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jack West, Talkeetna AE" <jackwest at alaska.net>
> > To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 12:38 AM
> > Subject: Re: SW4024 and Pizzo Ignitors [RE-wrenches]
> >
> >
> > > William et al,
> > >
> > > The ability of the 4024 to shed the charger load is approximately 1
amp
> > > per cycle (16ms).  IE, at 30 amps charging it takes 1/2 second to
> > > completely shed the charger.  Pretty slow.  I have seen this cause
> > > problems several times with pumps coming on.  Generally setting the
max
> > > charge amps to a lower value will fix the nuisance problems.  I did
not
> > > personnally measure this value but rather got the number from tech
> > > support at trace when I was having similar trouble with a customer's
> > > system.
> > >
> > > Jack West
> > >
> > > William wrote:
> > >
> > > > I've never tested either feature.  Has anyone out there tested
either
> or
> > > > both of these features?
> > >
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