Lost revenue?? Surely you jest + [RE-wrenches]

Wed Oct 9 16:47:05 PDT 2002

I have a friend who was able to receive the CEC rebate by selling the system
to his wife.

Alternative Power Systems
aps at sbcglobal.net
PO Box 1178
Grass Valley, CA 95945
(530) 274-0588 phone
(530) 274-0589 fax
----- Original Message -----
From: <asap at podnine.com>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 11:35 AM
Subject: RE: Lost revenue?? Surely you jest + [RE-wrenches]

> Here's a link to a page just recently posted at our servers while testing
> some new templates.
>
> This discusses the economic "turn-around" factor, which should be
> interesting to everyone reading in this thread.
>
> Pop up explanations should come up with the roll-over links, which are the
> numbers in the chart.
>
> http://www.podnine.com/asap_power/economy-of-life.html
>
> Some relatively basic but often overlooked economic principles...applied
by
> a true think-globally-act-locally kind of guy.  It's a "case study" for
San
> Diego but I would argue applicable for almost any large metro.  Just shows
> to go ya: a billion dollars goes a long way when spent in the opposite
> direction too.  The author of the research would have been the first to
tell
> you that the savings extend well beyond this, when you consider things
like
> Jeff's #6 items mentioned below.  I think it's a powerful argument, can
> anyone shoot it down or does it make too much sense?
>
> I forwarded the link to Tony Brasil at CEC and reminded him that it really
> is ok to give out state money for solar PV.    But I can't get him to
rebate
> a system sold by my company to myself.  He wanted my wholesale costs.  Is
> this fair?  As far as i know it's still 50% of installed costs or $4.50
per
> W.  Any CA retailer/installer have experience here with their own recently
> installed system?  Pleeeeeease email me and let me know what magic
> words/number combinations were used.
>
> Here's another interesting link discussing the $130B of imported oil our
> country is supporting and what seems to be an honest report on the history
> and depletion of reserves.  Yes, it will happen...
> http://evworld.com/databases/storybuilder.cfm?storyid=424&subcookie=1
>
> Meanwhile, us San Diegans are waiting for our next energy crisis as early
as
> summer 04!  That's only 18-21 months away!  And this county is already at
> the top of the US and CA charts in gasoline and electricity costs.  Lost
> revenue??  No, I know exactly where it went...
>
> Peter Duchon
> ASAP POWER!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeffery Wolfe, Global Resource Options
> [mailto:jeff at globalresourceoptions.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 9:44 AM
> To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
> Subject: RE: Lost revenue?? Surely you jest [RE-wrenches]
>
>
> Arguments in response:
>
> 1.  Unless they pay time of use rates on the PV generation, you are
> providing kWh's when they need them most, and when they cost the utility
the
> most to buy. Depending upon region, this is a substantial subsidy that PV
> owners provide TO the utility.
> 2.  PV adds good stabilization voltage to the grid. As more PV is added,
it
> will assist in grid stability.
> 3.  Since our kWh's typically do not flow very far down the line, D&T
losses
> are reduced. Thus each kWh that the PV generates is equal to more than one
> kWh from the utility, yet they pay us for only 1 kWh for each generated.
> 4.  The utilities receive tremendous subsidies. Tell them you would be
> pleased to remove any possible form or appearance of subsidy from PV when
> they do the same. We'd win hands down.
> 5.  Utility ratepayers subsidize a whole lot of things. The folks in the
> backwoods who have 1/2 mile of power line going only to them cost the
> utility a lot of money in maintenance and added line loss, yet do not pay
> different rates. Our most rural electric company has significantly higher
> rates than other companies, at least in large part due to the very low
> density of customers per mile. What's up with the big stink over this one
> item?  (  :)
> 6.  Tell them that the value of the direct subsidy due to direct
> environmental and health costs caused (directly) by the generation of the
> electricity is far in excess of the "subsidy" that PV gets.
>
> There's more, but that's all I can think of now...
>
> However, no matter what you tell them, they will not believe. They work
for
> the utility... Tell them that net metering is the law, and that you're
there
> to assist in implementing the law, not debating whether or not the law is
> valid. Perhaps you should ask them about the laws that create subsidies
for
> them, such as the monopoly authority provided to them by the state.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Jeff
> ***********
> Folks,
>
> I hope this is an appropriate question for the group.
>
> I'm working on an interconnection agreement with a utility.  They are
> cooperating but they keep repeating the stone-age mantra that each RE
system
> translates into lost revenue and that the other ratepayers wind up
> subsidizing the RE system owner.  Further, they claim that if too many
> people add RE systems, it will mean higher rates for everyone since there
> will be less kWh sales with which to recover fixed costs.
>
> Have you encountered similar arguments?  If so, have you found any solid
> arguments in response?
>
> David
>
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