islanding details [RE-wrenches]

[Jeffrey Wolfe, Global Resources]

Matt,

Sorry, i read my emails out of order. Thanks for all the details.

I agree with (I think) everything you said. (Except about the basketball 
stuff..)

Jeff

Quoting Matt Lafferty <pvpro at attbi.com>:

> Jeff / Wrenches:
> 
> (Please do not take the following out of context.....This has been
> building
> and, it may be a little premature for sharing but, like any good "sit on
> the
> pot and do your thing" thing, it has to happen.  This would be a nice
> time
> for non-plain-text 'cause then you'd all be able to see how I really
> feel....)
> 
> The Wrenches in LADWP have kept a significant element of the issue down
> there "off-list".
> 
> What stirred the hornets' nest, in my understanding, is the fact that
> some
> of the Inverters installed down there Island when there is a loss of
> grid-power.  These inverters come in a "White Box" (Trace SW UPV
> series).
> 
> Apparently, possibly (probably) for political reasons, the fact that
> Distributed Generation PV is being / has been deployed made somebody
> say,
> "Hey, we can get more money now".
> 
> I personally have witnessed the Islanding.  Every time I have tested it.
>  I
> discovered this a while ago, long before the LADWP issue, and urged our
> organization to perform testing and, if necessary, to follow up with
> proactive action so something like this wouldn't bite us all in the ass.
>  My
> insistence was ignored then.  (I was disappointed at the time but did
> try,
> on all of our behalf.)
> 
> Once the LADWP issue came up, I immediately resumed my cry to be
> proactive.
> This time, my cries were heard.  Based on this, we have initiated field
> testing of the systems we have like this (Sample of 30 of the
> approximately
> 200).  The initial (PRELIMINARY!) results are, in a nutshell, that, yes
> they
> do this but the potential for harm to Lineworkers is very minimal.  The
> generation is dissipated via a resistive load or, if the Lineworker
> follows
> Safety Protocol and grounds the conductors, the grounding of the
> conductors.
> (There are other related issues, but this is a nutshell, remember?)
> 
> Trace's position, as stated to me in the "dance around the issue" manner
> to
> which I've become accustomed, has been that the current UL standard
> wasn't
> adopted as final (You know, the "Draft" version referred to on their
> "ETL
> Certified to Draft UL Standard 1731" certificate with the Inverter)
> until
> late 2001.  Further, the CEC, etc. has posted a "grandfather" statement
> covering these inverters.  That statement doesn't stop those inverters
> from
> islanding.  Nor does it stop the IBEW or any other organization that
> wants
> to put up a stink from their bitch (arguably so from their perspective,
> in
> my opinion) and painting all PV with the same brush.
> 
> My opinion  is as follows:  (Actually just a snippet of said opinion. 
> Those
> of you who know me can hear the blood rushing from my tongue, which I
> am
> currently biting as hard as physically possible!)
> 
> UL be damned!  IEEE standards, jump off a cliff!  Responsibility and
> Integrity are paramount to the overall success of what we should be
> working
> toward.  Standards, Codes, Regulatory Requirements, Government in
> General
> and the growing impact (read as "Fungus") they bring to our lives are
> the
> outgrowth of people and companies not employing "Common Sense" and the
> spririt of "Betterment of All".  Greed, Shortsightedness, Politics,
> Lawyers
> and "Me-isms" have hurt us all, in virtually all aspects of our
> existence,
> not just PV Installers.  Did I mention Lawyers?  If not.....Lawyers.
> 
> In light of those things being said, UL, IEEE, NEC, UMC, UBC, CSA, ETL,
> UPC,
> etc. have all become required due to those factors.  The society in
> which we
> live here in the States needs them and, whether we like it or not, they
> are
> here and firmly entrenched.  They need direction and should never be
> given a
> "Carte Blanche" free pass to run all over us, but some level of
> standards is
> necessary.  Yes, some would appear to have adopted an attitude of
> "untouchable".  Unfortunately they have gotten to this point.  (I can't
> allow myself to go into the societal philosophies of that right now)
> Without clear, definitive, documentable proof, we have little chance of
> shattering that.  Our only hope is to demonstrate that we, as a whole,
> are
> Responsible and have Integrity.
> 
> Grid-Tied PV is new, and as such, requires "Mucho Cuidado" in the
> products
> we use, the manner in which we use them and our "end of the day"
> installation methods and practices we employ, not just mechanically in
> the
> field but as business-people as well.
> 
> None of us are perfect.  I sure as hell am not.  Nor is my program.  We
> don't know all the answers but, if we don't learn from our experiences
> and
> mistakes, we are doomed to repeat them.  This is a fundamental purpose
> for
> this list....To share the good and the bad.  Don't ever forsake that,
> please!
> 
> What has essentially happened is this:  One manufacturer, the only one
> for a
> long time here in the States, has compromised all of us and all that we
> have
> worked to achieve.
> 
> Manufacturers that want to play in the Grid-Tied market in particular
> must
> be made to adhere to that Responsibility and Integrity.  Too many eyes
> are
> watching for us to achieve success when "One of Ours" keeps punching us
> in
> the stomach, giving us all the proverbial "Black Eye".
> 
> Our feedback to them is as crucial to them successfully meeting our
> needs as
> their response to our feedback is to their success financially.  The
> time
> has passed for us to establish our point with them in time to avoid the
> current situation.  Due to the fragmented and "comfortable" nature of
> our
> industry, certain manufacturers have taken advantage of our trust,
> taken
> advantage of our reliance on them, taken advantage of their market
> position,
> taken advantage of being the "800 pound gorilla".
> 
> The sad fact is that divorce is a fact of life.  I, unfortunately, have
> been
> divorced in my own life three times.  I'm not a shining example of
> success
> in that area.  I wish things were much different, but they aren't.  What
> I
> can say is that I HAVE LEARNED FROM MY MISTAKES AND AM COMMITTED TO NOT
> REPEATING THEM!
> 
> I urge all of you to take a real hard look at what you do, who you are,
> how
> you do things, who you are dependent on, the direction(s) you think we
> should go in, what you want from all this, how that impacts the World
> around
> you and beyond.  To challenge yourself to find solutions.  To share
> those
> solutions.  Share your victories and your losses!
> 
> I am anti-communism.  Anti-union.  Anti-un-Americanism.
> 
> I am a realist.  I am pro-individual.  Pro-Choice.  Pro-Responsibility.
> 
> Thanks for reading so far.  I have lots more to say but it's the
> Conference
> Championship game.  Go KINGS!  BEAT LA!  Peace to all!
> 
> Pray for Sun!
> 
> -Matt Lafferty
> pvpro at attbi.com
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeffrey Wolfe, Global Resources" <global at sover.net>
> To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 1:50 PM
> Subject: RE: Solar Lockout and the IBEW's need for a huge jug of prune
> juice
> [RE-wrench
> 
> 
> > But Matt,
> >
> > The grid safety issues have been/are being addressed by IEEE with
> their
> > standards. In earlier posts, many folks said that if we wanted to
> change
> the
> > way we install PV, we should be working through the Standards Making
> bodies,
> > not doing some guerilla thing.
> >
> > How is the IBEW's action in locking out the disco's different from a
> > guerilla solar action? They each are taking the action into their own
> hands.
> > So why does it sound like we should respect the IBEW more than the
> > gueruilla? Only because "might makes right"?
> >
> > If systems are installed to current standards, then we already have
> safe,
> > grid safe, systems. Anyone who thinks otherwise, please tell me
> immediately,
> > (please also give some reasons). How can we make it into a "win-win"
> when
> > many folks on this list have already made the compromises, pushed the
> > standards, and completed, inside the process, the necessary steps to
> make
> > safe, code and standard accepted systems? sounds like it's a "we
> loses
> until
> > you decide we can take the winnings we already agreed on" situation.
> >
> > I'll not launch into a true rant.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Matt Lafferty
> > The "grid safety flag" these guys want to wrap themselves in is a
> tough
> one
> > to burn.  My opinion is that we shouldn't try to burn it, just fix it
> if
> it
> > is a problem.  That way, it is win-win.  We get better, safer, more
> reliable
> > equipment.  Our customers get better, safer, more reliable equipment. 
> The
> > Lineworkers get better, safer, more reliable equipment.  We all end
> up
> with
> > better understanding and ultimately a working relationship.
> >
> > Just a perspective....
> >
> > -Matt Lafferty
> > pvpro at attbi.com
> >
> 
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