Joel sees the "gas" light!! [RE-wrenches]

[Joel Davidson]

Hold yer horses. I like PV and H2. Several years ago some Germans proposed
putting big PV power fields in the north African desert, using the power to
convert water to H2 and then piping the H2 to Germany via existing
pipelines. Just your basic 50 year master plan to switch from natural gas to
H2. I say go for it. Start with 100 MW of single axis tracking PV like the
Rancho Seco Solar Facility at http://www.smud.org/pv/pvphoto4.html This
system has been in use since 1984 with the first 1 MW and then another 1 MW
in 1986.

Lawrence Elliott wrote:

> Mo wrote:
>
> > I believe we are still a VERY long ways off before we
> > will see H2 and RE co-exist as they can and should.
> > So in the mean time, install PV and drive those
> > EVs/Hybrids to stay grounded.
>
> Mo. Why do so many in the RE community have such a "roll over and play
> dead" attitude toward RE and h2?
>
> I believe you are totally wrong about the VERY long time for one (based
> on several hundred hours of research on my part)  and I would like to
> ask  (based on  your statement "as they can and should")  Who the hell
> is stopping RE and h2 from co-existing except for our own willingness to
> kill any possibility and give the oil companies the upper hand
> .
> No one has yet given me any reason not to pursue this h2 Re merger. Not
> on technical grounds and certainly not on environmental grounds.
> And if you want to talk economics?
> Based on pure economics we are then all idiots for paying such a premium
> for PV power.
>
> I suppose the attitude I see in the RE community is similar to what the
> Wright brothers heard from the railroad people who felt that steam
> locomotives were more than enough "high tech of the day".
> They lacked the vision to see the rag and wire contraptions morphing
> into 747's and had the Wrights and others heeded  nay sayers ,Joel's
> trip to India would have been on a sailing ship.
>
> Some of the comments I  hear concerning h2's non viability in the RE
> world ( I  get very few) simply makes me more committed than ever and
> the comments are illogical..
>
> I have no desire to drive an EV when it has not the slighest chance of
> having any mass  positive impact what so -ever on our oil pollution
> problems and in fact simply exacerbates them. Battery based EV's are
> simply a complicated transport designed to haul around  batteries.
> This is from someone who has designed,built ,driven and owned three
> EV's.
>
> There is not a single technical reason why a Toyota Prius Hybrid or any
> other cannot run on RE h2.
>
> And grid tie PV is still "peeing in the ocean"
>
> Okay enough rant.
>
> Hope all the nay sayers have sufficient stock in "Big oil "
>
> Larry Elliott
>
> P.S Eric Smiley brought up the natural gas thing.
>
> Several studies have been done showing that a very small addition of h2
> ( ratio of 1000 to 1  air to h2 I'm guessing) inserted into the manifold
> using one of the vacuum lines reduces overall pollutants by a large (
> don't remember the percentages) margin. Just one more in a very long
> list of reasons to pursue this h2 thing.
>
> By the way!
> See the announcement that GM is building a new 80,000 ft 2 plant in New
> York. Why?
> To mass produce fuel cells and make them as common as toasters and
> coffee pots.
> No reason why they have to run on oil based reformate h2.
> And as for bio-diesel.
> I have produced small quantities myself and although it is renewable the
> Nox levels ,CO2 and particulates are still quite high.
> Smells better though.
>
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