IEEE & UL & "Guerrillas" [RE-wrenches]

Fri May 3 10:46:30 PDT 2002

Jeff, well said. I can relate. I, we, have been involved with two utilities,
WPS in Wisconsin and SRP in Arizona with solar thermal DHW projects, both of
which where disasters. At this juncture, I am convinced they both where very
afraid of the "avoided electron" solar thermal makes. These guys put B team
players on the field, loose their check book and calendar, make extremely bad
decisions about equipment and system design, all of which appear to be by
design to insure failure. Even the common man can't be this stupid. It must be
by design. But, while they are slowly poisoning the well, they will wave the
green flag under the publics nose. The bad taste is hard to get out of our
mouth, and consequently, we have not dabbled in grid tie to date. After reading
these posts, I'm happy we have not. My favorite guerilla solar technique is put
in a solar DHW system and turn the electric water heater O F F!!!! Smitty.

"Jeffrey Wolfe, Global Resources" wrote:

> Some facts, some rant, some rally.
>
> It's not just the backyard folks who are being pushed to guerrilla status.
> We've got two systems right now, one 3 kW on a private school, and one 52
> kW on a state government building, in different states, that are being held
> up purely for obstructionist reasons. Cases in point:
>
> 1.  Trace ST2500, installed in the state of NH. Thius inverter has been
> instaled in how many states, in how many utility jurisdicitons? But in NH,
> the ST must undergo another test, a test that requires the destruction of
> several units, to prove that when they are destroyed (through a simulated
> lightning strike) they fail properly. Seems prudent, and other states
> require this. But NH also requires that this test be completed when the
> inverter is not putting out any power at the time of the strike (0 power
> state). No other state rquires this. What do the NH utility folks, who
> pushed for this, know that no one else knows? (In fact, a friend of mine
> who is a local manager for a small segment of Nat Grid, opposed the rule,
> but NU (PSNH) pushed for it, and being the dominant utility, they won.
>
> Documentation, including a letter from UL stating that the 0 power test is
> functionally equivalent to a 50% power test (which has been completed) has
> been submitted to the NHPUC. No action. We started this in December 2001
> (Thought I'd write the year, in case I need to dig this email up in a
> couple years for documentation.) No, the PUC is not the utlity. But, they
> certainly are not really independent of them. Each week, Xantrex inquires
> and gets the answer that there should be an answer Friday. (Guess we need
> to ask "which Friday")
>
> This school, made up of fine law abiding citizens, may go guerrilla. Of
> course the whole thing is stupid. Its a 3 kW array. The building will never
> let the power get to the meter. Of course, if there is a failure...
>
> 2.  We just finished installing a 52 kW PowerLight system in NY. Of course,
> the inverter is not in yet (held up by UL, but I just got word it ships
> tomorrow ) and Niagra Mohawk (the local utility) just responded to the
> interconnection application with a 6" thick pile of paper, a request for a
> $3000 fee for "review" and a statement that they will meter the power WE
> produce and charge US 2.5 cents per kWh generated. (This is actually
> allowed in NY for systems over 50 kW, but ours is rated at 40 kW AC, and
> the inverter is only 45 kW, so the rule shouldn't apply, but they still try
> to throw it at us, thinking we might not know better.)
>
> Of  course, the same building already had 15 kW of fuel cells tied into the
> building with net metering (yes, the utility actually DID meter those, and
> the building PAID 2.5 cents/kwh for the net metered power). The building
> also has already paid over $5000 to the utility for the engineering study
> for the interconnection of the fuel cells. So what's the big difference
> with the PV? Also, since the Trace Tech 45 kW inverter has not been "type
> tested" for the state of NY, we need to install a separate relay system
> with a shunt trip device to duplicate the UL1741 grid tie equipment. Not to
> worry though, we'll probably need the shunt trip breaker anyway, since the
> utility will probably require a disconnect switch at the main electrical
> service entrance, for the PV. Too bad we put the PV on the roof of a 6
> story building. Lots of copper coming through a completed building if they
> wont let us use the shunt trip.
>
> All this in a state where the Governor has declared that 10% of the
> electricity in state building will be provided through RE and efficiency by
> 2005 (I think) and 20% by 2010 (I think). All this in a state where NYSERDA
> funded over half the project. And this project is within several blocks of
> NYSERDA and the state capital.
>
> On a side note, Rochester (NY) Gas and Electric has a customer with an
> installation of several capstone turbines (which are allowed to
> interconnect in NY). RG&E charged $350 for the interconnection study, and
> did it quickly. They have been cautious, prudent, and non-obstructionist.
>
> Ok, enough detail, you get the picture. It really is the utilities that are
> forcing the issue with guerrilla solar (what shall the customer with a 52
> kW(DC) system do, with all UL listed equipment and complete, stamped,
> enginering designs, if the utility will not reasonably allow
> interconnection? (Sure, we should have gotten the approval first. It's
> called, "Grant Deadlines".) Having constructed millions of square feet of
> buildings, working with utilities from ComEd (Chicago, ooooo so regressive)
> to Boston, and NH (some great small ones) I've seen how utilities work.
> They are not easy to work with even in getting a new service for a large
> commercial. They have their ways. But they do get the job done, and they
> are predictable. This is NOT how many of them act with interconnection.
>
> Yes, we can work through the standards process, but really, who does
> control the standards process? Yes, we can be involved, but if my business
> card says "behomouth utility", people listen more than if it says "solar
> bozo". People want to trust people, and the utilities take advantage of
> that, and control the standards process through lies and half-truths and
> unfounded claims. Having been deeply involved in the creation of the net
> metering regulations for VT, I saw first hand how everything we said was
> discounted, because "obviously" we were just trying to get the least
> restrictive laws passed, whereas the utilities were "only concerned with
> public safety". The day before we finally got a hearing in front of the
> joint rules committee of the House and Senate, the Chair of the Public
> Service Board publically asked all utilities to show up at the hearing and
> show public support for the PSB position and proposed regs. Guess they got
> a few chits for it...
>
> Come on. Pull off the gloves. Sure, we need to work with the folks, but
> "work with" doesn't mean "expose body parts for flailing". We need to be
> aggressive on ALL fronts. The utilites are. Seen the newspaper adds in DC?
>
> Enough Rant, back to work.
>
> Jeff
> Jeffery D. Wolfe, P.E.
> Global Resource Options, LLP
> A Woman-Owned Limited Liability Partnership
> 4 Kibling Hill Road
> P.O. Box 161
> Strafford, Vermont 05072
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> http://www.GlobalResourceOptions.com
>
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