Code issues [RE-wrenches]

Tue Jan 29 05:38:52 PST 2002

Hi Carl and John,

Good questions and Bill's pretty much summed it up in my opinion.
What I would add is:

1) From a practical and safety standpoint, the lockable disconnect
serves no purpose as I see it. I think most wrenches would agree it's a
control issue with the utilities. So long as there are other disconnects
in the AC interconnection line, I never see it being used. As it's been
pointed out, lineworkers use safety protocols that should trump a
lockout switch and the thought of a lineworker in your neck of the
woods, driving his lorry many kilometers away from a downed line just to
lock out a 1000 W source just doesn't make sense. Furthermore, if the
utilities find a customer is in violation of their interconnection
rules, they can just pull the meter.

2) The NEC has excellent specs for conductors and insulation
requirements. Some problems in this country come from what is "listed"
(i.e. welding cable is not listed for this purpose though experience
shows that it is suitable). Keep this point in mind, what is listed and
by whom.

3) There has been good discussion about grounding on this list. If I had
my way, we wouldn't ground DC current carrying conductors in these
systems. What are the AC requirements in NZ? I'd think following those
protocols would be easiest for inspectors to accept.

4) A GFP is essential for ungrounded systems. I agree with Bill that
above 50VDC it is most needed in all systems. The problem in this
country as I see it has been with what products have been available and
the cost of these products. Think about a reasonable spec for when to
disconnect, in other words, how many amps.

Cheers.

Jason Fisher
Aurora Energy

-----Original Message-----
From: john at gosolar.co.nz [mailto:john at gosolar.co.nz] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 4:06 AM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: Re: Code issues [RE-wrenches]

Hi Joel,

Aren't you missing the point here a bit - Carl had requested some valued
feedback
from respected professionals on 4 basic questions - not to get engaged
in a battle
of words as to "ours is second to none" type of mentality.  There is
nothing to be
defensive about. Carl and/or I are actually trying to avoid some
pitfalls in what
we see as potential problems that might be avoided before they become
too embedded
in the infrastructure.

At this point in time Bill gave some very good feedback and thanks for
that.
Would you care to have a cup of coffee and maybe give some of the valued
advice
and help that you are usually noted for.  You don't have to defend the
NEC,
motherhood, or any other precious values that Clark Kent would also
defend.

        thanks in advance,                            John V

------------------------------------------------------------------------
-

Joel Davidson wrote:

> What's there to throw tomatoes at? Does NZ have a better set of rules?
> Does any nation have a better set of rules than the National
Electrical
> Code?
>
> Bill Brooks wrote:
> >
> > Carl,
> >
> > It would have been really difficult to choose four more contentious
issues
> > than the ones you have chosen in your examples.
> >
> > 1. Lockable disconnects are a utility union lineman requirement and
is not
> > necessary unless the union says it is.
> >
> > 2. Battery cables should be rated for whatever their use is (wet,
acid,
> > conduit, etc...)
> >
> > 3. You've probably read all the stuff on grounding. System grounding
does
> > not make a system  safer--but neither does ungrounding. The key is
design. A
> > well-designed ungrounded system is probably better than a
well-designed
> > grounded system.
> >
> > 4. This relates to #3. Every ungrounded system must have a means of
> > detecting ground faults (fairly easy to do). Every grounded system
operating
> > above 50 volts should have ground fault protection (in my humble
opinion).
> > So leave out 12 and 24-volt grounded systems--everything else needs
it.
> >
> > Now if you'll excuse me, I need to retreat to my bunker to get out
of the
> > way of all the flying tomatoes.
> >
> > My collegue Chuck Whitaker and I have worked on codes and standards
more
> > than most here in the states, and I'll warn you, it is a thankless
but
> > necessary job. Try to think down the road a bit and make judgements
on the
> > good of the industry as a whole. You'll do just fine.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Carl Emerson [mailto:freepower at freepower.co.nz]
> > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 6:01 PM
> > To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
> > Subject: Re: Code issues [RE-wrenches]
> >
> > Dear Wrenches,
> >
> > In NZ we are travelling on the road to regulation. I am well aware
that many
> > of
> > the code compliance requirements in the US are considered by many to
be
> > draconian.
> >
> > Can you assist with the issues to avoid.
> >
> > What aspects of the code impede the industry, yet are not really
addressing
> > safety issues ?
> >
> > Is a lockable disconnect really needed?
> > Should we be able to choose cables with a lower spec.?
> > Do the earthing requirements make sense?
> > Is GFI really needed?
> >
> > I realise that there may be diverse opinions about some of these
issues but
> > I
> > think there will be wide spread agreement on some ?
> >
> > John V and I are on the board of the NZPVA and have an opportunity
to steer
> > code
> > and regulation issues in a sensible direction.
> >
> > Many Thanks,
> >
> > Carl Emerson
> > Manager
> > FREEPOWER LTD.  "Harnessing Natural Energy"
> > P.O. Box 10-1207 N.S.M.C. Auckland, NEW ZEALAND.
> > Ph. 09 4275206 fax 09 4275208  cell 021-633999  web
www.freepower.co.nz
> >
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