PV and Fuel cells [RE-wrenches]

[Lawrence Elliott]

Just could not resist Michael.
Promise you can spank me for this!
On second thought forget that. I'll buy you a good microbrew ;-)

Thanks Hugh for reinforcing my desire to electrolyze water into h2.

You have referenced nothing more than lead acid batteries which have no
chance what so ever of being more than a dead weight for the tiny
minority ( considering the billion present smog belchers on the road
world wide) of "die hards" (pun intended) who insist on building battery
EV's. At best lithium ion batteries (the best in energy density) still
falls far short of practicality in the real world. And when we compare
the enormous laundry list of recyling and environmental trade offs of
batteries of any type relative to simple distilled water this becomes a
no brainer.


No one is arguing that at present electrolysis for stationary
applications is cost effective or practical.

It is not a question of will fuel cells take over the ICE it is now
when.

In a transporation application the %80 lead acid efficiency level is
totally unrealistic, where as the first atom of hydrogen fed to a fuel
cell is as efficient as the last.

Proton Enegy has exhibited as high as %92 efficiency in a PEM
electrolyzer.
And that's self pressurised to about 150 bar.

Perhaps they will make it commercially avialable when enough of us early
adopters buy them in spite of their cost just like we did with those
"overpriced" and "totally impractical and inneficient" PV panels two
decades ago.

I just drove three fuel cell vehicles one of which was the Toyota
Highlander that has specs of 115 mpg equivalent and %51 overall
efficiency and can "burn rubber with four passengers and has enough room
that occupants don't have to be intimate relatives and I could have
satisfied my thirst with the exhaust as well as diverted the 90kw at 350
volts to supply my neighborhood on the suitcase sized fuel cell stack
all on two tanks of h2 that could be carried full of fuel by my
grandmother who is on crutches.
And that's just a pre production unit that has more room for
improvement.
Now try that with a lead acid anchor posing as a battery.

If anyone has a better way of ensuring that renewables will have a cut
in the future transportation energy scene ( IMHO far more important than
stationary)let's hear it.

Until then I just hope the RE industry does not sit back and nit pick
promising technologies to death while still "peeing in the ocean" in
terms of energy contribution and pollution reduction,as the nuke and
coal industries laugh all the way to the bank.

Reasoned rant OFF!

Let's tip a cold one Michael

Larry Elliott




----- Original Message -----
From: "Hugh Piggott" <hugh at scoraigwind.co.uk>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: PV and Fuel cells [RE-wrenches]


> >Bill,
> >
> >What a great way to create "clean" energy!
>
> yes I'd have liked more on this but michael says no.
>
> >
> >I wonder what's wrong with separating hydrogen from water with wind
energy?
>
> it's incredibly inefficient.  Sadly about 60%, and the fuel cell is
> also 60%, so you get less than 40% round trip, I am told.  Against
> lead acid with 80%.
>
> --
> Hugh
>
> hugh at scoraigwind.co.uk
> http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk/
>
> - - - -
> To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>
> Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/
>
> List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm
>
> Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html
>
> Hosted by Home Power magazine
>
> Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
>
>
>

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9.bWljaGFl
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================