SPAM: NABCEP & Training [RE-wrenches]

Mon Nov 25 18:39:07 PST 2002

Jeff

I think it is vitally important for my employees and myself to
understand the relationship of the wires to the modules and why we size
the array accordingly.  I started early with my people as so far as to
explain why there are 36 cells at a half a volt on a panel. Of my 6
employees, four have journeyman licenses and 2 are in the state
apprenticeship program.  We follow tight guidelines for safety in our
company.  I provide all of the technical support I have at my disposal
to educate my people for the safest and code compliant systems for
longevity. They are always eager to learn, and humbled when they realize
the "magic" of PV and it's importance they once took for granted.

In my 15 years as and electrician and 10 as a licensed contractor,
(arrow approaching) many days I have wondered how certain individuals
received their PE license! Just as you have perhaps shook your head as
you have got to a job site,  I have shed some light on projects from the
design element for many PE's in my short career.
I think it is important for all of us to consider helping each other to
raise the bar from both design and installation and not beat each other
up over it!

Any segment of the population in their respective fields can be great
test takers and neutralize the one impediment for societal acceptance in
their vocation. My rant is over, but I think the most significant thing
that can come out of this list is a positive movement towards education.
It is such a complex industry that will constantly grow and mature.
Right now the Sunny Boy grid tie inverter is the crème de la crème, but
what will be "the one" in 2 years? 

By all of us helping each other, this will be a positive force for our
communities in which we live in.

Keith Cronin
Island Energy Solutions
318 A Kuulei Road
Kailua, Hawaii 96734
808-262-3268 Tel
808-263-0338 Fax
www.islandenergy.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffery Wolfe, Global Resource Options
[mailto:jeff at globalresourceoptions.com] 
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 4:05 PM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: RE: SPAM: NABCEP & Training [RE-wrenches]

A certified installer should know how to connect the wires, but not
necessarily what size the wires should be. That's the difference between
design/engineering and installation. Never ask a licensed electrician to
design, it's beyond the training and skill level of most. Similarly,
it's
pretty unusual to find an engineer who can competently install. (I can
hear
the arrows coming already.) My view comes from 20 years in the
construction
industry, outside of PV.

While I agree that there are too few real PV designers to make this a
separate certification as of now, let's not confuse that issue with the
general ability of installers to design.

Most of this list (I think) are competent designers, well experienced.
But
as we get more of the "Dealers in a box" who install only the
predesigned
systems by Astropower or Shell, I think we'll see more divergence
between
installer and designer.

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Brooks [mailto:billb at endecon.com]
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 7:27 PM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: RE: SPAM: NABCEP & Training [RE-wrenches]

Brad,

All training requirements were removed from the NABCEP certification
because
of a huge backlash from manufacturers and wrenches on the subject.
Partly
because of union concerns and concerns over creating too much
beauracracy.

The key is a tough exam. I'm willing to bet that very few will be able
to
pass the test without a training class or detailed study of the review
guide. Everybody takes the test so everybody has to come up to speed.

I agree that designers should also be certified, but there are so few of
them that their is too little market now. A certified installer should
be
able to tell the difference between a good design and a bad one.

Bill.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Bassett [mailto:bsbassett at earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 1:31 PM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: SPAM: NABCEP & Training [RE-wrenches]

I think that training MUST be an intergral part of any certification
program, how else will installerrs learn how it should be done without
the years of experience that most wrenches have? If pv is going to
continue to expand as most of us hope, there will have to be many new
installers. It is these installers that we must get to, and train to do
installations in a manner that will serve the industry and the customer.

I see lots of effort by NABCEP to certify experienced installers, but I
do not see an effort to have a training program or to certify new
installers. How are new installers supposed to get the experience they
need? What kind of installtions are they going to do until they have
that experience? Without a training program and certification for
installers who have passed this training, this will be just another "old
boys club". The NACBEP may want to come up with a training program or we
may have to accept what the IBEW & NECA based NJATC comes up with, which
would of course be part of union training and apprenticeship.

I think that there should be a training course that is required, with
maybe some grandfathered in wrenches, but only if the test is very
rigorous. Perhaps there could be different certification levels, one for
newbies who have passed the test and one for experienced installers.
There could also be different certifications for residential and
commercial work, just as there is for electricians in many states.

I would also like to see a separate certification for PV designers. This
will increasingly be a different task than system installation, and can
be done wrong just as easily. Other industries often have this
certification separately.

Take a look at
http://www.radiantpanelassociation.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=185
for an example of a certification program in a sort of similar industry.

One other note is that in my experience with a past project consisting
of many potential installs in CA a few years ago, the IBEW and NECA were
very aggressive about trying to exclude non-union PV installers, and
their playing card was supplying the training for the installers. Unless
they have changed their tune, I would be wary if you don't want to be
union or excluded in some way.

Brad Bassett
bsbassett at earthlink.net

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