Switches [RE-wrenches]

Wed May 8 16:11:38 PDT 2002

The best price I can find is $50 (City Electric) for a GE TGN3321R, Outdoor
30 A 2 pole non-fused. I noticed that PG&E exempts this requirement for a
disco if the inverter is 1 kVA or less - Rule 21, D.1.i. BTW- Rule 21 also
specifically rejects Air Cond. pull-out type disco's. Too bad, I like the
idea of a $10 disco that no one will ever use.

If anyone finds a better deal please share...

-jeff

> 	From the Solar, Wind & Hydro Powered office of:
> 	Jeff Oldham
> 	Gaiam- Real Goods & Jade Mountain
> 	Design & Consulting Group
> 	11755 Mid. Mtn. Rd.
> 	Potter Valley, CA 95469  USA
> 
> 	Ph: 303.222.3814
> 	Fax: 707.743.1820
> 
> 	www.solardevelopment.com
> 
> 	"When you turn to face the Sun all shadows fall behind you"
> 	- Old African Proverb
> 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Brooks [mailto:billbrooks7 at earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 3:10 PM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: Switches [RE-wrenches]

Jeff,

The ones I have seen are 30-amp, 240-volt, gang operated, load break rated.
I have seen them with and without fuses. Next time I'm at the supply house
I'll get model numbers. Others on the list may have them sitting in their
shop and can chime in. 60-amp and 100-amp swithes are obviously more
expensive.

I used an $90 Square-D switch on my home system because I liked the quality
and it was on the utility's list--I didn't want the discussion of why I
chose a switch that wasn't on their list.

I generally think lists are bad because new equipment is coming on the
market that can satisfy the concerns. The proper way to write a requirement
is to be specific about what it must do and let UL or ETL test it for
electrical safety.

Bill.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Wolfe, Global Resources [mailto:global at sover.net]
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 9:21 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches at topica.com'
Subject: RE: utility obfuscation and obstruction [RE-wrenches]

Bill,

Please provide the supplier or manufacturer name for that $30 switch. And
is it rated load break without fuses? Haven't found one for twice that
price that anyone around here stocks.

We use a quality switch. It's load break rated. It's got a visible break
(You need to have the cover open to see the break on any switch. The handle
mechanisms can fail. I spoke to an electrician this morning who actually
had a handle mechanism fail so that it looked like it was off, but was
not.)

We do choose our battles. The utlities are doing whatever they can to
obstruct us here, as they are launching their own campaigns for their own
RE projects. Am I worried about competition from Home Depot? No way. Am I
worried about competition from the utilities? Absolutely.

Jeff

On Wednesday, May 08, 2002 1:35 AM, Bill Brooks
[SMTP:billbrooks7 at earthlink.net] wrote:
> I'm definitely with Bob-O on this one.
>
> Most of these lineman's arms are bigger than my waist. It's just not
worth
> the fight. Choose your battles. Even a $30 switch can often suffice. I'm
not
> a big fan of the pullout air conditioning switches anyway. I've seen a
few
> good ones and I've seen some that I wouldn't put on my enemy's doghouse.
A
> gang-operated, visible-break, load-break-rated, lockable switch (able to
> handle a 3/8" utility lock shank) can be as little as $30. Why fight it
at
> this point. I do believe the day will come when all utility linemen will
> understand the capabilities of our wonderful inverters, but until that
day,
> just install the switch. I actually use my switch a fair amount for
service
> reasons, and I have to admit that I trust that visible open switch a lot
> more than my circuit breaker when I'm touching wires.
>
> Many pullout switches hide the internals so the cover has to be removed
to
> confirm the visible open anyway. Low priority fight.
>
> Bill.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob-O Schultze, Electron Connection
> [mailto:econnect at snowcrest.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 7:35 AM
> To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
> Subject: Re: utility obfuscation and obstruction [RE-wrenches]
>
>
> Jeff and All,
> My experience with Pacific Gas & Electric (PG&E) here in CA is that
> they require a visible handle, non-fused, lockable disconnect. Since
> we're on the ac output of the inverter, that's a pretty standard 30A
> or 60A box. Even in Nema 3R, it's about $60.00 wholesale. Installed
> in most systems it adds less than $200.00 retail to the total cost of
> the system. While I agree that it is unnecessary with today's
> inverters, the only rationale I've heard expressed that makes any
> sense is that it gives a lineman 1) a visual indication of OFF and 2)
> peace of mind once they lock it out for line work.
> It's important to keep in mind that most utility lineman would NOT
> qualify for an electrician's license in most states. I'm not
> "dissing" them in any way, it's just that their work experience is
> limited by what they do. Given that, I don't have a problem with
> making their stress level just a little less. There are bigger, more
> important fights to fight.
> Bob-O
>
> >
> >"This device is a disconnect NOT a switch. It does not meet the
> >requirements of VT PSB Rule 5.100 " A utility accessible, locakable,
load
> >break rated, visible break disconnect switch with safe working
clearances
> >is required for all installations.
> >
>
> --
> Bob-O Schultze, Electron Connection
> PO Box 203, Hornbrook, CA 96044
> 800.945.7587 or 530.475.3402
> fax 530-475-3401
> www.electronconnection.com
>
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