UL's monopoly [RE-wrenches]

Wed May 1 12:16:43 PDT 2002

jberdner at sma-america.com wrote:

> UL is allot more expensive but they are the most widely recognized 
> and accepted mark. UL writes the Standards and is typically much 
> more expensive than ETL. Since UL writes the Standard they tend to > be 
> a little more precise and, in my experience, they find things 
> others might miss.

OutBack went with ETL for several reasons.  One was that ETL is less 
expensive.  Another reason is that they have a Seattle office that does 
testing - I can drive down to it and be home each day (late, but home).  
Another is that ETL lets me talk with real engineers about issues and 
questions and response with written interpretations - I have talked with 
the top senior engineer at ETL on several occasions to resolve questions 
I had.  They are a real for profit business and treat me as a valuable 
customer.  

UL, on the other hand, wants all the testing to be done in Chicago from 
my experience.  They have refused at times to allow real engineers at UL 
to talk with me directly and have not in past provided written 
justifications for their interpretations. They act, in my opinion, like 
they are a fourth branch of the federal government - they get to be the 
judge, jury and tax collector all in one without any effective means for 
petitioning an individual employee's opinion...  

Also,  UL does not allow other NRTL listed products or components to be 
used as part of a larger listed assembly under the UL508 electrical 
control panel program.  This means you could not build a UL listed 
"power panel" with either a RV Power Products Solar Boost (ETL listed) 
or a Xantrex SW series (CSA listed).  ETL allows use of products and 
components approved by UL or other NRTLs to be integrated into a larger 
listed assemblies. 

All of the Trace Power Panels, the DC250 and many other products have 
been and are still are ETL listed.  These products have been well 
accepted by inspectors all over the US.  

Somehow building inspectors continue to allow unlisted generators to be 
installed all the time - and they have many more hazards than a PV 
system - hot surfaces, flammable fuels, rotating parts, electric shock, 
poisonous gasses (exhaust)....  Not accepting an ETL listed PV combiner 
or inverter but allowing an unlisted generator would be shear hypocracy. 
There is no UL standard still to this day for stationary generators - 
hummmm...  

> Making an assembly of UL components does not mean the assembly is UL
> Listed. You can easily put together a bunch of UL Listed components 
> that can get you killed. This is why they have to test the 
> completed assembly before you they
> allow you to put the Listing mark on the product. Some people have > 
> gotten away with putting Listed components into Listed enclosures 
> and pretending the assembly is Listed but this is risky business.
> While it may get by some inspectors, as a group they are becoming 
> more knowledgeable all the time.

OutBack just worked with Energy Outfitters to get them approved to build 
complete ETL approved power systems.  ETL was very flexible and allowed 
Energy Outfitters to use our approvals as a starting point - eliminating 
a lot of duplicated effort and reducing the cost for their approval 
substantially.  Energy Outfitters can now build custom one-off panels 
using OutBack's products as a start.  Look for several other companies 
to have similar approvals with OutBack and ETL in the future.   

I want to make a call to all the Wrenches to fight against UL's monopoly 
on listing of products.  Their defacto quasi-governmental status as 
being the only "experts" on approving products to published safety 
standards does not encourage competition and innovation.  If you want 
lower cost products to be available sooner with innovative features and 
capabilities,  then educate your inspectors on OSHA and NRTLs and help 
fight for competition and a level playing field.  

Christopher Freitas
OutBack Power Systems, Inc.
cfreitas at outbackpower.com  www.outbackpower.com
Tel 360 435 6030  Arlington WA USA

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