third Party Installations [RE-wrenches]

Tue Nov 6 14:21:43 PST 2001

Why would the tradesmen quote (just to get the sale) the same price as Home
Depot/Lowe's/Etc. sells then go to Home Depot and the buy it for that same
price?  Home Depot typically does not give contractor discounts anyway.  Why
would you spend at least an hour picking up and a purchasing a water heater
with your money at Home Depot then billing what you paid for it. Not to
mention if it gets damaged in transit you are liable for it.  Then do the
job already 2 hrs of billable labor in the hole.  That's crazy and very
unprofessional.  I don't need customers like that.  I've got to many who are
willing to pay me WELL for my time and expertise.  I've said it before, you
can not afford to be in business for wages only.

The smart plumber simply tells the customer to go to Home Depot and "buy it
yourself then put it in and haul off the old one".  The smart plumber knows
he makes his money from people who will pay him to spec and supply the water
heater and immediately recognizes and dispatches the guy will attempt to
install his own water heater after he requests a quote from a plumber.  If
he is any good at all he is always several weeks behind and will continue to
be no matter how many water heaters Home Depot sells.  I am a professional
tradesman and business owner (licensed electrical contractor) and I learned
long ago that matching prices gets you in trouble every time.  It makes no
sense.  When I hear people start talking about what they can buy it for
somewhere else I know that they are not my customers and sometimes, not so
politely, quickly dispatch them. They are the same people who want you to do
the job at a specific time (this afternoon)  then make you wait weeks for
your money.  I admit that I do very little residential work (less the 5k in
this year, excluding solar) and that most of my work is at large factories
which is a whole different ball game.  They can't afford to bid out projects
when they know they have a contractor who already knows the factory and
treats them fairly.

The cheapest solar dot coms will always be there.  They are a good thing,
really.  They do bring the price down for everyone but I still don't have to
like them.  The people who buy from them aren't smart enough to know that
they are getting in over there heads until it's too late.  That's exactly
what they tell me.  Right after they say "I didn't know there was anyone
around here who did this stuff, could you please come out and hook all this
stuff up, this afternoon would be fine".  There will be a niche market for
those who provide "detailed drawings" (cookie cutters of the last jobs so
please don't pretend that you are doing a great service) and talk about
value added this and that. The local electrician who shows up on a time and
material basis (read big money) hooks it up and says no more of that thank
you and goes back to what he makes money on. 

The future will be what people are used to.  They want to be able to stop by
and visit the guy who will put supply and install their system.  They want
to know if their system breaks on Christmas Eve that there is a local guy
less than an hours drive away who can show up and save them.

Well all this said,  I have delayed billing 3 customers and getting out 2
quotes to regular customers who typically don't even look at the price. 
They just need a quote for their paper work.  The moral of the story is find
your niche, take pride in your work and do it well. That's what I do.  I
already have the next 4 months scheduled and after that is at least another
4 months of "do it when you can get to it"  work waiting for me.  If you are
a cheapest solar dot commer then just admit it, take pride in it and tell
your customers up front that in exchange for low prices they are on there
own.

Travis Creswell
Ozark Solar

----------
>From: Joel Davidson <joeldavidson at earthlink.net>
>To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>Subject: Re: third Party Installations [RE-wrenches]
>Date: Tue, Nov 6, 2001, 9:54 AM
>

>The smart plumber tells his customer, "Sure, I can sell you the Home Depot water
>heater at the same price as Home Depot." Then he either buys the heater at 
>Home Depot
>or buys it at a discount from another supplier or tells his customer why he should
>buy the brand heater that he sells. Plumbers, electricians, PV installers, etc. are
>competing with Home Depot and other parts suppliers. So learn how to compete. Make
>your equipment prices competitive. Learn price differentiation. Determine your
>materials, labor and G&A prices that you need to meet your profit goals. 
>You can not
>manage your competition, but you can take manage your own business and your
>customers.
>
>
>
>jay peltz wrote:
>
>> HI Drake,
>>
>> Well said.  I keep coming back to our other trades, such as electrical or
>> plumbing.
>>
>> How many plumbers will install a hot water heater, that you don't buy from them,
>> and how  many would warranty it?  yea right,
>>
>> How many electricans would  install the same, equipment bought elsewhere?
>>
>> Solar has gotten the rap as being something you can do yourself, and so it is.
>> But when you cross that line of oops I can't do it myself  that it gets very
>> complicated.  Much of this problem comes from web sellers.  As I used to be one
>> for AEE and then Applied power, the hardest part of my job was to figure the
>> design parameters.  The system was easy, but the hows and whys and not being able
>> to see and having to trust the customer, next to impossible.
>>
>> Our industry is no different.  We have good installers, and poor ones.  Ones who
>> understand design, others who only understand profit.  No way to make it perfect,
>> its just life.  But hay our time is now!!
>>
>> jay
>>
>> peltz power
>>
>> Drake Chamberlin - Electrical Energy wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Wrenches,
>> >
>> > Most of my RE work is with systems that are either off grid, or designed to
>> > supply specified loads in the event power outages.  To function adequately,
>> > these systems require careful planning.  Some of my concerns might not
>> > apply to systems that are strictly gird intertie.
>> >
>> > I  am willing to install equipment purchased from other sources with
>> > certain understandings.  One is that, in the event of equipment failure, I
>> > will be paid my regular rate to service the installation, unless the
>> > problem is due to my error.
>> >
>> > A big issue is, that I must be paid for designing the system.  Without
>> > commission, I can't afford to provide "free" deign work.   The bargain
>> > hound may find that much of his savings are eaten up by having to pay for
>> > design time.
>> >
>> > A lot of existing systems I've seen look fine.  A power panel hanging on a
>> > wall, and a nice looking solar array can look pretty impressive.  The only
>> > problem is that many of these systems don't accomplish much.  The
>> > electrical loads and use patterns of the premise may squander the
>> > relatively few watts available from the PV system.
>> >
>> > Yet, with a well thought out system, a dwelling really can run on solar
>> > electricity.  It may require not using a forced air furnace, but
>> > circulating DC pumped hot water from a gas boiler, that uses either a pilot
>> > light or an efficient AC control box, that is designed to shut off when not
>> > needed.  This may require working with a plumber who needs to be
>> > educated.  This may lead to searches for appropriate boilers, hot water
>> > tanks, pumps, tubing and other related equipment.  It may be necessary to
>> > make certain, that elements of systems that we are not installing, get set
>> > up properly.
>> >
>> > A functional system may require phantom loads be eliminated by use of DC
>> > powered answering machines, computers, cell phones, etc. Voltages may need
>> > to be adjusted by using battery bank equalizers or DC to DC voltage
>> > converters.
>> >
>> > All proposed appliances need to be cleared for the system.  Certain loads
>> > may need to be shed on low battery conditions.  Water pumping and
>> > pressurizing strategies need to be evolved.  Wires need to be sized for
>> > amperage and voltage drop.  Code compliant physical layouts need to be
>> > developed, often with difficult space limitations.  Appropriate and
>> > properly listed equipment needs to be specified and located for all
>> > subsystems.  It is truly necessary to wholisticly design the entire system,
>> > loads as well as generation.
>> >
>> > Every job is different.  Making an off grid home truly function involves a
>> > lot more than hanging an inverter on a wall and wiring batteries & modules
>> > together.  Two systems may look a lot a like to the untrained eye, but one
>> > may serve 95% of the electrical needs of a premise and the other 15%.  The
>> > magic is in the subtle detail.  In this line of work, details really do
>> > matter.
>> >
>> > I don't care too much how I get reimbursed for my time.  It is probably a
>> > better deal for the customer to pay the higher price for the equipment, and
>> > get on-going support for the system, plus get the "free" design work.  But
>> > it is sometimes hard to get customers to understand that there is more to
>> > this business than assembling a Lego set.  That can be the biggest
>> > challenge in a project.  But careful design work is essential to
>> > demonstrate the true potential of PV.   Few can afford to supply it for free.
>> >
>> > Peace,
>> >
>> > Drake
>> >
>> > - - - -
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