PV as an investment [RE-wrenches]

[Joel Davidson]

Dear Jerry and Everyone,

You are right that temperature will affect energy production. A 1 kW PTC
AC PV system with battery backup at Los Angeles International Airport will
produce 1500 kWh/year (smog, fog, clouds, cool temperatures). The same
system 50 miles inland will produce 1650 kWh/year (smog, more sun, about
15 degrees F warmer ambient). A 1kW batteryless PV system will produce
1650 kWh and 1825 kWh respectively.

The bad news is my math is wrong. I asked Tom Hoff, author of the
wonderful Clean Power Estimator
http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/renewable/estimator/index.html
http://www.clean-power.com/
to check my math. Tom came up with a 1% return on investment.

The good news is we shared some great responses to prospect objections to
PV's long paypack. I guess we will just have to keep on selling PV until
the economics look better :-)

Best regards,
Joel Davidson

Jerry Caldwell wrote:

> Joel,
>
> Your numbers don't look right to me.  I don't see any
> figures for system inefficiency.  Unless you have an
> inverter that operates at %100 and an array that
> always operates at 77 degrees F, you will never see
> that kind of output on the system below.
>
> Jerry Caldwell
>
>  no one has commented about
> > the math I used to come up with the return on
> > investment. Are my numbers right?
> >
> > 1kW AC PV system
> > 5 sun hours per day
> > 1,825 kWh/year PV production
> > $0.12/kWh utility rate
> > $219 value of PV
> > $10,000 PV system cost before rebate
> > $5,500 PV system cost after California $4.50/W
> > rebate
> > 3.9% return on PV system as an investment
> > ($216/0.039 = $5500)
> > 35% income tax rate
> > 3.9% is equal to a 5.2% untaxed return on investment
> >
> > If interest rates and stock returns were not so low
> > and there were no PV rebates, I
> > wouldn't even bother with this problem, but 5.2% is
> > better than CDs and most stocks
> > lately.
> >
> >
> >
> > jay peltz wrote:
> >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > Heres my question.  Sure I give the customer many
> > angles to make the system cost
> > > effective, but how many people run into problems
> > when you suggest:
> > >
> > > "Well its cheaper to reduce than produce.  We need
> > to get you a new refer, washer,
> > > lights etc etc.  "
> > >
> > > Then I show them the math, and its like major
> > blank time.
> > >
> > > Just wondering what you all have run into.
> > >
> > > jay
> > >
> > > peltz power
> > >
> > > Smitty wrote:
> > >
> > > > Howdy all. Reading all these wonderful posts
> > about the payback wall people
> > > > have built around themselves before contacting
> > us, something occurred to me,
> > > > and that is this. I don't know how old all of
> > you are, but I suspect most of
> > > > us are middle aged. After WW II, a lot of lads
> > came home to a booming economy,
> > > > and badda bing, badda boom, the baby boom was
> > on. Young couples in the
> > > > strongest economy on earth, out achieving the
> > American dream for decades. He
> > > > is where we come in. A generation watching our
> > parents getting houses, new and
> > > > better appliances of all kinds, cars with fins,
> > and the marketing boob tube
> > > > teaching us new, bigger and better.
> > > >
> > > > Many of the customers we deal with nationwide
> > are of this generation. Our
> > > > company roots are in solar thermal, but we to,
> > still hear the "P" word and one
> > > > of my other dreaded words, "efficiency".
> > > >
> > > > Since some of these baby boomers are now
> > yuppies, I find they look at things
> > > > they don't understand as an investment, as
> > opposed to a Ford Expedition. ME
> > > > WANT. I'll spare you the whole spiel, but it is
> > quite simple to explain the
> > > > economics of solar thermal vs a furnace or water
> > heater in terms of an
> > > > investment. About this time the Mrs. pops up,
> > "It will make our house look
> > > > ugly.". And so it goes. Sometimes the wall comes
> > down (sometimes on my head).
> > > >
> > > > One last point. I find it is much easier to sell
> > solar to our BB brethren,
> > > > after they have already made a luxury purchase,
> > i.e. a remote hunting cabin,
> > > > RV or a cold swimming pool.
> > > >
> > > > Smitty
> > > >
> > > > "Bill Loesch, Saint Louis Solar" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > My compliments Jeff for the creative thinking.
> > Anyone else have an
> > > > > effective reply to utility comparisons?
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill Loesch
> > > > >
> > > > > RE-wrenches said:
> > > > > >When asked either "what's the  payback", or
> > "how does this compare to the
> > > > > utility co.", I simply
> > > > > >said  "It's the cheapest clean power you can
> > buy."
> > > > >
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