PV as an investment [RE-wrenches]

[jay peltz]

Hi Joel,

I don't think that people are going to do that, save 50% without changing some things,
like lights to CFL's, washers to front loads, refers to the new energy stars.  These will
save them $$.  If the question is could they reduce that much sure, but only if
electricty goes up to $1 per kwh.

jay

Joel Davidson wrote:

> Selling stuff, even good stuff, is not my idea of living the good life. I challenge
> people to reduce their energy consumption by at least 50% without buying more stuff.
> If everyone in the U.S. cuts their consumption at least 10%, I'll quit selling PV and
> start enjoying heaven on earth. The bad news is, Americans are not going to consume
> less and billions of people in developing countries aspire to consume like Americans.
> So I guess I'll just have to keep selling PV until everyone becomes a net energy
> producer or all of the planetary resources are used up.
>
> Back to PV as an investment. There has been a lot of good discussion about selling PV
> and answering objections about payback and break-even. But no one has commented about
> the math I used to come up with the return on investment. Are my numbers right?
>
> 1kW AC PV system
> 5 sun hours per day
> 1,825 kWh/year PV production
> $0.12/kWh utility rate
> $219 value of PV
> $10,000 PV system cost before rebate
> $5,500 PV system cost after California $4.50/W rebate
> 3.9% return on PV system as an investment ($216/0.039 = $5500)
> 35% income tax rate
> 3.9% is equal to a 5.2% untaxed return on investment
>
> If interest rates and stock returns were not so low and there were no PV rebates, I
> wouldn't even bother with this problem, but 5.2% is better than CDs and most stocks
> lately.
>
> jay peltz wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Heres my question.  Sure I give the customer many angles to make the system cost
> > effective, but how many people run into problems when you suggest:
> >
> > "Well its cheaper to reduce than produce.  We need to get you a new refer, washer,
> > lights etc etc.  "
> >
> > Then I show them the math, and its like major blank time.
> >
> > Just wondering what you all have run into.
> >
> > jay
> >
> > peltz power
> >
> > Smitty wrote:
> >
> > > Howdy all. Reading all these wonderful posts about the payback wall people
> > > have built around themselves before contacting us, something occurred to me,
> > > and that is this. I don't know how old all of you are, but I suspect most of
> > > us are middle aged. After WW II, a lot of lads came home to a booming economy,
> > > and badda bing, badda boom, the baby boom was on. Young couples in the
> > > strongest economy on earth, out achieving the American dream for decades. He
> > > is where we come in. A generation watching our parents getting houses, new and
> > > better appliances of all kinds, cars with fins, and the marketing boob tube
> > > teaching us new, bigger and better.
> > >
> > > Many of the customers we deal with nationwide are of this generation. Our
> > > company roots are in solar thermal, but we to, still hear the "P" word and one
> > > of my other dreaded words, "efficiency".
> > >
> > > Since some of these baby boomers are now yuppies, I find they look at things
> > > they don't understand as an investment, as opposed to a Ford Expedition. ME
> > > WANT. I'll spare you the whole spiel, but it is quite simple to explain the
> > > economics of solar thermal vs a furnace or water heater in terms of an
> > > investment. About this time the Mrs. pops up, "It will make our house look
> > > ugly.". And so it goes. Sometimes the wall comes down (sometimes on my head).
> > >
> > > One last point. I find it is much easier to sell solar to our BB brethren,
> > > after they have already made a luxury purchase, i.e. a remote hunting cabin,
> > > RV or a cold swimming pool.
> > >
> > > Smitty
> > >
> > > "Bill Loesch, Saint Louis Solar" wrote:
> > >
> > > > My compliments Jeff for the creative thinking. Anyone else have an
> > > > effective reply to utility comparisons?
> > > >
> > > > Bill Loesch
> > > >
> > > > RE-wrenches said:
> > > > >When asked either "what's the  payback", or "how does this compare to the
> > > > utility co.", I simply
> > > > >said  "It's the cheapest clean power you can buy."
> > > >
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