ST problems [RE-wrenches]

Thu Aug 23 11:18:04 PDT 2001

Simtty, Jim and Travis' comments should be balanced against the grid-tie PV that are
working. We have done over 250 Omnion 4kW and 6kW installations in Sacramento.
Initially, we had 6% DOA or infant mortality until we required installers to sign off on
proper installation and told Omnion to pay for the 2-way shipping on warranty claims or
we would stop buying from them. Problems dropped to zero. Last I heard, SMUD plans to
replace some of the Omnions for Sunny Boys. I have consulted to the clients on several
jobs that use Trace Technologies (old Kenetech) larger inverters and all work as
specified. I have sold hundreds of SW-series inverters and had less then 2% problems
which is consistent with Trace's comments. A few of our customers with ST2500 inverters
have had problems, but we have not heard a peek from them since we gave them Dean Van
Vleet's phone number at Trace. We also did a few GC1000s that are working fine. Other
companies are also successfully putting in many kW of grid tied PV.

The California Energy Commission is not finding inverter failures a problem in the
rebate program. The CEC has found power and energy production below spec. As Bill Brooks
points out, use 0.85 of module PTC to derate inverter systems with batteries (also
derate for tilt and azimuth). Yesterday I spoke to a solar architect in Fresno (hot
region) who uses 0.62 of module STC to derate ST2500 watt systems.

Rebates as a driver to more sales is a whole other issue. The CEC rebate program piddled
along at $3/W. When the rebate jumped to $4.50/W in May, demand also jumped. LA
Department of Water & Power and a few other municipal utilities had $4/W and $5/W
rebates, but without publicity and promotion, they too just piddle along.

If you want urban and suburban PV to grow in your area, you need a big rebate (alas only
off-grid PV markets grow without subsidies), an energy crisis like blackouts in
California, Chernobol in Europe, etc. to get people's attention, lots of good publicity
and marketing to capture people's interest, excellent and honest sales people to sell
systems, reliable suppliers to deliver product in a timely manner and good contractors
who know how to pull permits and expedite installations. After a couple dozen megawatts,
you start to build a local infrastructure just like the air conditioning business
started after WWII. Twenty years from now we will look back on this as "the good old
days," but the best is yet to come.

Smitty wrote:

> William, here is my .02, Reader's Digest version. I 've learned a long time ago when
> to sip my beer and sit on the 50 yard line and watch the game unfold, and that is
> what we are doing in this case. The stuff I've read on this list about the ST, and
> even some SW, scares me to death. We have no buy down or rebate programs here in NM,
> but amazingly enough we do get our share of inquiries about grid tie. Sorry Trace,
> but we have shot straight with all of them and informed them of the various problems
> and have told them to wait. If the customer persists, we tell them we can order one
> for them, but make it very clear they are on their own. Hence, no sales. As Jim
> states in his post, I'd rather do no business, than bad business. Smitty.
>
> William Miller wrote:
>
> > Friends:
> >
> > I will continue to report on progress with all RE equipment I am exposed to
> > as that is one of the prime functions of a group such as this.  Below is an
> > e-mail message indicative of my experience working with ST inverters.  I'm
> > sure you are all aware what a drag it is to continue to travel to a
> > client's location after the job is done for repeated equipment problems.
> > The engineers at Trace are great folks and dedicated, but in spite of their
> > efforts, the problems continue.
> >
> > Here is the score card:  Of the 8 ST inverters installed so far:
> >
> > 2 are working consistently, albeit with a lower efficiency than I might
> > have expected.
> > 1 has been replaced with a Sunny Boy at the clients insistence
> > 1 is showing reduced output after replacing the firmware
> > 1 produces a reduced power output before the required time out
> > 1 was purchased by the customer over the internet and is now his problem,
> > but it was shutting down consistently.
> > 2 have "died" as per the message below after other problems (displays
> > blanking, shutting down)
> >
> > I have enjoyed working with the SW equipment in spite of shortcomings.  I
> > hope Trace improves reliability with the ST line.  I am willing to assist
> > where I can, but the process is costing me time, money, and customer
> > confidence.
> >
> > I have heard little from others on the ST performance, good or bad.  I
> > would speculate that: not many are using them and/or others are not
> > comfortable publishing their negative experiences for fear of straining
> > relations with Trace.  I guess the latter may be an advantage to an
> > installer not being a dealer.  I can't say I enjoy being the only one
> > complaining about a product, but I feel compelled to assist my colleagues
> > by providing accurate reports from the field.
> >
> > Stay tuned.
> >
> > ---Text of client message:
> >
> > Hi William,
> >
> > Sorry to say that both inverters "died" this afternoon.... R. called
> > (supplier) earlier after we got your phone message since the right one
> > was cycling way down again, and he asked that both of them be replaced since
> > the      left one had started making a louder buzzing noise also. When I went to
> > check on them later today, both were making a repeating zap sound and the
> > displays were blinking on and off in unison with the sound. As soon as
> > they're reinstalled, I'll test as you asked.
> >
> > G.
> >
> > __________________________________________________________________
> > William Miller
> > SLO Communications: Communications and Power Systems Consulting
> > PO Box 50, Santa Margarita, CA 93453
> > Voice :805-438-5600             Fax: 805-438-4607       VMail: 805-546-4875
> > email: wrmiller at slonet.org
> > License No. C-10-773985
> > _____________________________________________________________
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> > CAD: Microstation 95, DXF, Visio 4.1T
> > _____________________________________________________________
> > "I stand by all the misstatements that I've made." Dan Quayle
> > __________________________________________________________________
> >
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