third Party Installations [RE-wrenches]

[jay peltz]

HI Drake,

Well said.  I keep coming back to our other trades, such as electrical or
plumbing.

How many plumbers will install a hot water heater, that you don't buy from them,
and how  many would warranty it?  yea right,

How many electricans would  install the same, equipment bought elsewhere?

Solar has gotten the rap as being something you can do yourself, and so it is.
But when you cross that line of oops I can't do it myself  that it gets very
complicated.  Much of this problem comes from web sellers.  As I used to be one
for AEE and then Applied power, the hardest part of my job was to figure the
design parameters.  The system was easy, but the hows and whys and not being able
to see and having to trust the customer, next to impossible.

Our industry is no different.  We have good installers, and poor ones.  Ones who
understand design, others who only understand profit.  No way to make it perfect,
its just life.  But hay our time is now!!

jay

peltz power

Drake Chamberlin - Electrical Energy wrote:

> Hi Wrenches,
>
> Most of my RE work is with systems that are either off grid, or designed to
> supply specified loads in the event power outages.  To function adequately,
> these systems require careful planning.  Some of my concerns might not
> apply to systems that are strictly gird intertie.
>
> I  am willing to install equipment purchased from other sources with
> certain understandings.  One is that, in the event of equipment failure, I
> will be paid my regular rate to service the installation, unless the
> problem is due to my error.
>
> A big issue is, that I must be paid for designing the system.  Without
> commission, I can't afford to provide "free" deign work.   The bargain
> hound may find that much of his savings are eaten up by having to pay for
> design time.
>
> A lot of existing systems I've seen look fine.  A power panel hanging on a
> wall, and a nice looking solar array can look pretty impressive.  The only
> problem is that many of these systems don't accomplish much.  The
> electrical loads and use patterns of the premise may squander the
> relatively few watts available from the PV system.
>
> Yet, with a well thought out system, a dwelling really can run on solar
> electricity.  It may require not using a forced air furnace, but
> circulating DC pumped hot water from a gas boiler, that uses either a pilot
> light or an efficient AC control box, that is designed to shut off when not
> needed.  This may require working with a plumber who needs to be
> educated.  This may lead to searches for appropriate boilers, hot water
> tanks, pumps, tubing and other related equipment.  It may be necessary to
> make certain, that elements of systems that we are not installing, get set
> up properly.
>
> A functional system may require phantom loads be eliminated by use of DC
> powered answering machines, computers, cell phones, etc. Voltages may need
> to be adjusted by using battery bank equalizers or DC to DC voltage
> converters.
>
> All proposed appliances need to be cleared for the system.  Certain loads
> may need to be shed on low battery conditions.  Water pumping and
> pressurizing strategies need to be evolved.  Wires need to be sized for
> amperage and voltage drop.  Code compliant physical layouts need to be
> developed, often with difficult space limitations.  Appropriate and
> properly listed equipment needs to be specified and located for all
> subsystems.  It is truly necessary to wholisticly design the entire system,
> loads as well as generation.
>
> Every job is different.  Making an off grid home truly function involves a
> lot more than hanging an inverter on a wall and wiring batteries & modules
> together.  Two systems may look a lot a like to the untrained eye, but one
> may serve 95% of the electrical needs of a premise and the other 15%.  The
> magic is in the subtle detail.  In this line of work, details really do
> matter.
>
> I don't care too much how I get reimbursed for my time.  It is probably a
> better deal for the customer to pay the higher price for the equipment, and
> get on-going support for the system, plus get the "free" design work.  But
> it is sometimes hard to get customers to understand that there is more to
> this business than assembling a Lego set.  That can be the biggest
> challenge in a project.  But careful design work is essential to
> demonstrate the true potential of PV.   Few can afford to supply it for free.
>
> Peace,
>
> Drake
>
> - - - -
> To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>
> Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/
>
> List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm
>
> Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html
>
> Hosted by Home Power magazine
>
> Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
>

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com
<A HREF=" http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9 ">
AOL users click here.</A>

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================