RE TEST LAB - EXPERIMENT 1 - BOB-O [RE-wrenches]
Drake Chamberlin - Electrical Energy
solar at eagle-access.net
Fri Feb 25 14:46:33 PST 2000
Dear Bob-O,
Thanks for your input on the welding cable issue, and for your
encouragement. It is good to hear that the "listed cable" issue is not
being pushed in your area.
I (Drake) first learned about the issue several years ago after doing a
job at a ski cabin hundreds of miles from home at an elevation of 11,300
feet. We had a grueling trip to the location in a blizzard, via snow
mobile. It was a great relief when the project was completed.
A month or so later, the owner finally got an inspector to the location.
The state inspector busted the job on the battery interconnects. He had
been reading a manual from "The Solar Guru," he explained to my customer.
The cables were good quality, made of welding cable and purchased from a
national distributor. It took many hours on the phone to find acceptable
cable at that time. Fortunately the customer was cooperative and
understanding. But who needs all that extra stress?
If you want to send in a 2" piece of your welding cable insulation, we
will give it the acid test.
It can be sent to:
EECC
1412 Steele St. #202
Denver, CO 80206-2520
We could send a proposal to the NEC for a change of wording, that would
allow welding cable to be used in battery enclosures. It will probably take
until the 2005 code to get it officially changed.
The current reading is:
"Flexible cables, as identified in Article 400, in sizes No. 2/0 and larger
shall be permitted within the battery enclosure from battery terminals to
nearby junction box where they shall be connected to an approved wiring
method......"
Possible proposed change:
Flexible cables, as identified in Article 400 "and suitable welding cable,"
in sizes No. 2/0 and larger shall be permitted within the battery enclosure
from battery terminals to nearby junction box where they shall be connected
to an approved wiring method.......
We would probably be more specific as to types of welding cable and may
want to request a more extensive change of wording. Other types of cable
may be added to the list.
Drake Chamberlin
Don Wallingford
---- Original Message -----
From: Bob-O Schultze <econnect at snowcrest.net>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: RE TEST LAB - EXPERIMENT 1 [RE-wrenches]
> >Dear Drake and Don,
>
> Good Show!
> I generally use a GOOD QUALITY welding cable for all my
> installations. It's Essex Excelene, rated from +105C to -50C 600V,
> but not UL. I use a heavy duty crimp lug and glue filled heat shrink
> to seal it. I've never had a problem or failure of any kind. I do
> have some UL listed 427 strand stuff marked RHH/RHW/USE 600V in 2/0
> and 4/0 on hand in case I HAVE to use it, but it's about $1.50 more
> per ft (4/0) and I just can see how the performance difference could
> possibly be different. We're running what, 60VDC MAX thru the stuff?
> That's a 10X safety factor and the stuff is DESIGNED to spend its
> whole life living in a sparks shower and being dragged across cement
> floors in welding shops. For crying out loud...
> Finely stranded wire is absolutely a necessity for inverter cables.
> You might get by with THHN for battery interconnects, but why fight
> with it?
> I came behind a system once where the installer ran 4/0 THHN from the
> battery, thru a 6x6 chase, up into the Trace disconnect, and into the
> breaker. Unfortunately, I had to disassemble this mess. Thought I'd
> break an arm getting it out of there. No THHN for me, thanks.
> Keep up the super work.
> Bob-O
>
> >QUESTIONS FOR WRENCHES
> >
> > So far, the only parameter that we have been able to come up
> >with that is unique for battery compartments is acid resistance. Do
> >any Wrenches know of other parameters that may be important?
> >
> > Traditionally, battery and inverter cables have been of the
> >finely stranded variety. (2/0 Hypalon Diesel Locomotive cable has
> >427 strands). In the past, before inspectors wanted to be involved
> >with RE systems, I (Drake) had used 2/0 THHN in certain
> >installations, which has 19 strands (according to NEC Table 8).
> >This cable seemed to work fine. Where it needed bending, I would
> >pre bend it to avoid stress on terminals. I have never tried to put
> >THHN inside of a Trace disconnect enclosure, but imagine that it
> >would be difficult. Does anyone feel that using finely stranded
> >cable is (or is not) necessary?
> >
> > What other types of cable should we be testing?
> >
> > Any information about success or problems with the use of
> >various cable for battery interconnect would be appreciated.
> >Especially important, has anyone had problems with using welding
> >cable in association with battery banks? Does anyone have evidence
> >indicating that welding cable is adequate?
> >
> >THE LAB'S MISSION
> >
> > This lab is dedicated to determining what is technically
> >necessary for safe renewable energy systems. Our hope is to find
> >ways to eliminate unnecessary expenditures, to allow for more people
> >to be able to afford these systems.
> >
> >
> >
Sincerely,
> >
> >
> >
> >Drake Chamberlin
> >
> > Electri
> >cal Energy
> > (303)
399-1025
> >
> > Don
> >Wallingford
> >
> >Quicksilver Electrical Service
> > (303)
833-4214
>
> Bob-O Schultze, Electron Connection
> PO Box 203, Hornbrook, CA 96044
> 800.945.7587 fax 530-475-3401
> www.electronconnection.com
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